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Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

MiniMatt
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 20-04-2010

Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Hi folks,
Firstly, we live freakin miles from the exchange (Cheltenham, supporting, according to BT of ADSL Max and ADSL2+). So far that the BT checker at dslchecker.bt.com still states that "despite an engineer's visit to your premisises it has been proved not possible for your telephone line to support ADSL" - although we've been with plusnet for many years at an albeit ropey 512k connection on our apparently not suitable for DSL telephone line. We're on a PlusNet Pro package if that helps.
Anyway, we know we're never going to get blazing speeds on this ropey old bit of copper, but over the last three months we've seen significantly improved SNR ratios which would suggest we might be able to squeeze a little more out of the line, maybe even reach the dizzying heights of 1mb! Put plainly, where we used to see 5-6db SNR downstream, for the last few months we've seen a pretty solid 22db downstream SNR at 512kbps. We've not seen any re-synch attempts at higher sync rates however and attempts to manually force an ADSL2+ connection (via "dsl operating-mode adsl2+") fail, only connection we can get is on G.922.1.
If it helps any I'm a CCNP working for a Cisco prem partner, so feel free to talk techy (though admittedly most of my day to day is fubarred layer 2 spanning tree rather than DSL), we're running with a Cisco 1801 on 12.4(15)T12 (advanced IP services), current dsl int info shown below:
[tt]EdgeRouter#sh dsl int atm0
ATM0
Alcatel 20190 chipset information
                ATU-R (DS)                      ATU-C (US)
Modem Status:    Showtime (DMTDSL_SHOWTIME)
DSL Mode:        ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A
ITU STD NUM:    0x03                            0x1
Vendor ID:      'STMI'                          'ALCB'
Vendor Specific: 0x0000                          0x0000
Vendor Country:  0x0F                            0x0F
Chip ID:        C196 (0)
DFE BOM:        DFE3.0 Annex A (1)
Capacity Used:  24%                            39%
Noise Margin:    22.5 dB                        26.0 dB
Output Power:    14.0 dBm                        12.0 dBm
Attenuation:    59.0 dB                        31.5 dB
Defect Status:  None                            None
Last Fail Code:  None
Watchdog Counter: 0xF9
Watchdog Resets: 2
Selftest Result: 0x00
Subfunction:    0x00
Interrupts:      41360 (0 spurious)
PHY Access Err:  0
Activations:    9
LED Status:      ON
LED On Time:    100
LED Off Time:    100
Init FW:        init_AMR-3.0.014_no_bist.bin
Operation FW:    AMR-3.0.014.bin
FW Source:      embedded
FW Version:      3.0.14
                Interleave            Fast    Interleave              Fast
Speed (kbps):            0              576            0              288
Cells:                    0          139078            0          1023646
Reed-Solomon EC:          0                0            0                0
CRC Errors:              0                8            0                0
Header Errors:            0                5            0                0
Total BER:                0E-0          3207E-10
Leakage Average BER:      0E-0          3207E-10
                        ATU-R (DS)      ATU-C (US)
Bitswap:              enabled            enabled
Bitswap success:          0                  0
Bitswap failure:          0                  0
LOM Monitoring : Disabled
EdgeRouter#sh ver
Cisco IOS Software, C180X Software (C180X-ADVENTERPRISEK9-M), Version 12.4(15)T1
2, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc3)
Technical Support: http://www.cisco.com/techsupport
Copyright (c) 1986-2010 by Cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Fri 22-Jan-10 00:08 by prod_rel_team
ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 12.3(8r)YH6, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
EdgeRouter uptime is 8 weeks, 3 days, 6 hours, 54 minutes[/tt]
Note that at least three of the 9 activations in the last 8 weeks is me trying to force a re-synch, so not exactly regularly dropping connection.
Anyway, any help gratefully received.
Cheers,
Matt
13 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,028
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

This answers your question
              Interleave            Fast    Interleave              Fast
Speed (kbps):            0              576            0              288
You are on a fixed speed product.
Looking at the noise margin you might indeed get better speeds if you moved to MaxDSL
However can you check the noise margin during late evening to see if it drops significantly
198kHz
Aspiring Champion
Posts: 3,446
Thanks: 405
Fixes: 11
Registered: 30-07-2008

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Maybe you've had the same experience as me, and a length of aluminium cable has been replaced with copper.
In any event, your up/down speeds indicate you're on a 0.5Mb/s fixed rate, and you need to ask PN to transfer to ADSLMax. There will be a 10 day 'training period', which will establish your MSR and FTR (Fault Threshold Rate).
Edit: Jim beat me to it - funny thing though, although I got the red warning, I couldn't actually see your post Jim  Undecided
Remember you are unique - just like everyone else
MiniMatt
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 20-04-2010

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Ok I've obviously missed something - I thought that synch speed was determined at the exchange and as far as the "product" was concerned it was traffic shaped after the event ie. post synch? Which was why I was asking if there was an interface into BT to try to re-synch at higher speed as I didn't think the ISP product (PlusNet Pro if it helps) was fixed as such (other than after synch traffic shaping and the like). If I'm currently on PlusNet Pro, what product do I need to aim for a higher sync?
For the record, check regularly and monitor via traps to a snmp server, SNR honestly hasn't fallen below 20db for last two months.
MiniMatt
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 20-04-2010

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Quote from: Force
Maybe you've had the same experience as me, and a length of aluminium cable has been replaced with copper.
In any event, your up/down speeds indicate you're on a 0.5Mb/s fixed rate, and you need to ask PN to transfer to ADSLMax. There will be a 10 day 'training period', which will establish your MSR and FTR (Fault Threshold Rate).
Edit: Jim beat me to it - funny thing though, although I got the red warning, I couldn't actually see your post Jim  Undecided

I wouldn't be suprised if they replaced the aluminium with damp string Smiley Aha, so I can request PN to shift to ADSLmax - that via a support ticket or is there some area of the site I've missed?
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,028
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Before MaxDSL all products were fixed speed - 0.5Mb/s, 1.0Mb/s and 2Mb/s each of which had an upstream speed of  288kbps and the line attenuation determined the speed BT would supply with little or no flexibility.
They then brought in MaxDSL which allowed the exchange to automatically determine the sync speed based upon a stable noise margin.
In some cases the line was considered so flakey that moving to MaxDSL was not considered to be a good idea as the resultant speeds could well be a lot lower.
In other cases the upgrade to MaxDSL was missed and just didn't happen.
For whatever reason your line is provisioned as a fixed speed connection and you will need to contact Plusnet to get it changed.
However - and this is why I suggested you check your noise margin in the late evening - your line may become unstable and the default noise margin will rise and a forced resync in the late evening could leave you worse off. I doubt that this will be the case but it is better to check first.
The other thing is to ensure that before going to MaxDSL you internal wiring is in good shape. If you connect to the test socket does the noise margin increase or stay the same
You need to request it via a support ticket although you might get a silly response if the agent doesn't realise what you are asking. If that happens just flag it back here and a rep will sort it
MiniMatt
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 20-04-2010

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Ahh that makes sense, thanks Smiley Support ticket incoming Smiley
Edit: Oh, and always has been straight into master socket (and thanks to numerous BT visits back when we could barely get 512 at 5-6db a shiny new mastersocket and new feed from the telegraph pole at that).
198kHz
Aspiring Champion
Posts: 3,446
Thanks: 405
Fixes: 11
Registered: 30-07-2008

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

To whet your appetite - after the copper replacement, I was on 0.5M fixed with 25dB SNR. Now on Max the average sync is around 4800. Attenuation 52dB.
Remember you are unique - just like everyone else
MiniMatt
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 20-04-2010

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Quote from: Force
To whet your appetite - after the copper replacement, I was on 0.5M fixed with 25dB SNR. Now on Max the average sync is around 4800. Attenuation 52dB.

You tease me with your voluptuous bandwidth you Smiley
198kHz
Aspiring Champion
Posts: 3,446
Thanks: 405
Fixes: 11
Registered: 30-07-2008

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Wink  Cool
Remember you are unique - just like everyone else
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,663
Thanks: 656
Fixes: 162
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

I've placed an oreder to move you over to MaxDSL, this should complete tomorrow and your line will start the 10 day training period to determine the best stats.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
MiniMatt
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 20-04-2010

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

Apologies for raising this zombie thread back from the dead but I thought it best to inform you all that "Oldjim" may well be psychic Smiley And as a cautionary tale for others in a similar boat to ourselves.
Well, Oldjim's quote of "your line may become unstable and the default noise margin will rise and a forced resync in the late evening could leave you worse off" turned out to be distressingly accurate. While the initial 10 day training period went pretty well with several days of uninterrupted connection at or around 2mb, the last couple of weeks has seen large number of drops (35 in the last 4 days and 22 hours, pretty much any and all hours of the day) which has resulted in a BT IP profile nailed solid to 135kbps for the last five days despite sync rates consistently sitting between 1 and 2mb.
So upgrading from ADSL1 to ADSL2 has taken our rock solid 512kbps fast path line and turned it into a heavily interleaved 135kbps line that bounces like a toddler in an inflatable castle Sad Be careful what you wish for, especially if you wish for more bandwidth Smiley
No input necessary from plusnet staffers lurking as a ticket already raised. Tonights stats are below for those interested.
[tt]EdgeRouter#sh dsl int atm0
ATM0
Alcatel 20190 chipset information
               ATU-R (DS)                      ATU-C (US)
Modem Status:    Showtime (DMTDSL_SHOWTIME)
DSL Mode:        ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A
ITU STD NUM:     0x03                            0x1
Vendor ID:       'STMI'                          'ALCB'
Vendor Specific: 0x0000                          0x0000
Vendor Country:  0x0F                            0x0F
Chip ID:         C196 (0)
DFE BOM:         DFE3.0 Annex A (1)
Capacity Used:   99%                             57%
Noise Margin:     1.5 dB                         19.0 dB
Output Power:    16.5 dBm                        12.0 dBm
Attenuation:     59.0 dB                         31.5 dB
Defect Status:   None                            None
Last Fail Code:  None
Watchdog Counter: 0x77
Watchdog Resets: 0
Selftest Result: 0x00
Subfunction:     0x00
Interrupts:      8602 (0 spurious)
PHY Access Err:  0
Activations:     35
LED Status:      ON
LED On Time:     100
LED Off Time:    100
Init FW:         init_AMR-3.0.014_no_bist.bin
Operation FW:    AMR-3.0.014.bin
FW Source:       embedded
FW Version:      3.0.14
                Interleave             Fast    Interleave              Fast
Speed (kbps):          1376                0           448                 0
Cells:                35135                0       2165389                 0
Reed-Solomon EC:      25111                0             6                 8
CRC Errors:            1029                0            10                 8
Header Errors:          861                0             5                 3
Total BER:                65535E-255             0E-0
Leakage Average BER:      65535E-255             0E-0
                       ATU-R (DS)      ATU-C (US)
Bitswap:               enabled            enabled
Bitswap success:          0                   0
Bitswap failure:          0                   0[/tt]
BT speedtester from tonight (much the same as every other day for the last five):
Download speedachieved during the test was - 96 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 50-250 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :1376 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 135 Kbps
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,696
Thanks: 919
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

I wonder if a fixed rate 1MB might be more appropriate for your line?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
grahamt
Rising Star
Posts: 561
Thanks: 12
Registered: 05-04-2008

Re: Any way of forcing an MSR re-check?

By the way, you're not on ADSL2. Your router stats show you're connecting using the G.992.1 protocol - that's ADSL1. You were moved from a fixed-rate line to MaxDSL, but still on ADSL1.
You probably could get moved to ADSL2, though you may have to switch to another package (Plusnet Pro still exists, but it might be different to the version you're on). I'm not sure if it would be worth it. Allegedly it can provide some improvements on low-speed lines, but that might be only for very long but stable lines. Experience with BT's line management software doesn't build confidence that speeds or stability will improve with ADSL2. What do other people think?
For the moment you need to get Plusnet to monitor your line to see if the problems can be pinpointed. Your stats show a downstream sync speed of 1376 and a low noise margin of only 1.5dB. If the stats were taken just before you posted, then it would still be daylight outside. On my line the noise margin plummets after dark, so it would be good to get some stats later on in the night.
Graham