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An elementary query.

ArthurDent
Grafter
Posts: 170
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Registered: ‎25-02-2013

An elementary query.

Looking at some of the technical wizardry you guys write about here, I'm embarrassed to pose very basic questions, but here goes.
I understand from threads here that IP addresses are usually dynamic - unless specifically altered to static. Interestingly, my own address has been unchanged for at least three or four weeks, and giving response times, which have also been fairly stable (at <4mbps, which I've sort of accepted for my non-fibre). Suddenly, yesterday, a 10% drop in response times has been accompanied by a change of IP address.
So I need a tutorial, please. Has the change of IP address caused the slower response times, or has a drop in response times forced a change of IP address? in other words, what triggers a change in IP address? Presumably if I hit the black button, forcing a new IP address, that might reset the speed?
Absence of acronyms (and preferably words of one syllable) would be much appreciated by the noddy at this end! 
13 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: An elementary query.

Dynamic IP's change when you loose sync with the exchange or if you reboot your router, but not when you drop the PPP connection aka gateway hopping.  It can be you get the same IP address on reconnection but usually it changes.  Which in your case is the result of the lost sync you had
Unvalued customer since 2001 funding cheap internet for others / DSL/Fibre house move 24 month regrade from 8th May 2017
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: An elementary query.

I'd expect a dynamic IP to be reallocated on a drop of PPP connection. What may lead you to believe it doesn't doesn't change is if it's been a quick drop and reconnect when it may get the same IP.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
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Re: An elementary query.

A burst of high frequency noise or interference on the telephone line will cause your router to lose its broadband connection.  But if your line is generally good this might only happen ever few weeks.  When the router re-establishes the connection it renegotiates your IP address and the speed.  If there was still some noise on the line when it was doing this then the line speed it negotiated may be slower than it was before.  This happens to me if my line loses the connection at night.  It's usually worth my while to reboot the router during the daytime to get the speed back up.   
ArthurDent
Grafter
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Registered: ‎25-02-2013

Re: An elementary query.

Thanks folks. The only 'high frequency noise' I'm aware of is from those endless godam junk calls making me all sorts of offers I can't afford to refuse!
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: An elementary query.

Hi Noddy Wink welcome to the forums by the way, as I see no-one responded to our first post Crazy
When you talk about response times, I guess you mean ping times? If not, could you be more precise. Ping times can vary, dependant on which Gateway you are on.
If you want to Gateway hop, log in to your modem/router and go to the Internet Box as shown here assuming you have the TG582n, and click Disconnect. This drops the PPP session to the ISP. Wait about 30 seconds and then Click Connect. Do not just reboot the modem/router  as this can be seen by the exchange as a dropping connection.
Maybe you could post your stats which may give us a clue as to whether the change you had might be a line related issue. Login into your modem/router and under DSL Connection, click View more ..... as shown here and then Details on the top RHS. Just Copy and Paste the information into a post.
PS. In case you aren't aware, the red underlined bits are links  Wink
ArthurDent
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Re: An elementary query.

I'm sorry. I have to admit that I misled you guys when I wrote about response times  Embarrassed . What I actually meant was SPEEDS.
Anotherone - in response to your query, though, since the beginning of March ping - which I take to be the same as latency -  has averaged either 36 (from thinkbroadband) or 52 (from speedtest) for the same frequency of tests. I have no idea whether that is good, bad or indifferent for my nonfibre connection! Gateway appears unchanged at pcl-ag07, which is City Lifeline House. I am situated west of London under the LHR flightpath.
Yes, we have a TG582n, which is used to service a desktop by ethernet, a laptop by wifi, and an ipad (very occasionally two). No real probs with the ethernet desktop, but the wifi gear still suffers dropouts from time to time, even when  an ipad is moved adjacent to the router which, by the way, is the 2nd we've received from PN.
In view of the various crits of the TG582n which turn up on this forum, I'm wonderig once again about having to buy an alternative?
What say you?
 

ArthurDent
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Registered: ‎25-02-2013

Re: An elementary query.

So, further to yours, anotherone, the figures you requested look like this from the desktop:

DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 23:50:59
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4.192
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 139,05 / 558,88
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 18,7
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31,5 / 53,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14,0 / 7,6
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / -
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / -
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 417 / -
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 79 / 76.449
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 33 / 758
HEC Errors (Up/Down): -3 / 758 / 4.820
Do please let me know if I can supply any further info.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: An elementary query.

Hi AurthurDent,
That's quite a reasonable sync speed (Bandwidth Down) for your line attenuation and the CRC errors aren't too bad, but lower would be better.
The ping/latency of 36 from TBB is quite reasonable for a line that is Interleaved (FEC errors are reported - so Interleaving is on). I wouldn't take too much notice of the figure reported by the BT speedtester which seems to vary dependant on the congestion on the tester!
A good check of ping time is to open a Cmd prompt window and ping ntp.plus.net - you will see some slight variation depending on how busy things are, but at an off-peak time it should be pretty steady, and as I mentioned previously you can get different times on different Gateways.
So overall it sounds like the possibility of an occasional dropped connection, but the Uptime on the stats yesterday was almost 24hrs. Can you post some more stats today? How long have you had your Plusnet connection?
If you can also say whether you have a Master Socket like the one on the left? Do you have any extension phone sockets, and where are you currently plugged in?
ArthurDent
Grafter
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Registered: ‎25-02-2013

Re: An elementary query.

Thanks again! It appears, then, that perhaps the speeds I’m getting from my non-fibre set-up approx 1½m in a direct line from the exchange may be the best I should expect?
THINKBROADBAND:-
avg tbb 1dl - 3.42Mbps
burst tbb 1 dl - 3.67Mbps
avg http x6dl - 4.48Mbps
burst http x6dl - 4.48Mbps
avg tbb ul - 0.37Mbps
burst http ul - 0.38Mbps
latency - 33ms
Speedtest.net gave similar results but with ping of 52 whereas the link you suggested gave min 28 and max of 47. I haven't yet tried any othe gateways.
Re dropouts – it’s interesting that the uptime was shown as >23hrs, because my manager reported two dropouts during that period. I used the wifi button on the front of the tg582n which cleared them ok for her.
Yes the master socket is like the one you pictured on the left. However years ago when the house was built bt, in its infinite wisdom, placed it in a totally impossible position. Therefore I had a quiet word with a bt engineer who did a moonlight job of plumbing in a short permanent (chased-in) extension across the hallway to where the router and main phone are situated. At times of maximum frustration I have tried connecting to the original, but it seemed to make no difference to either speed or wifi dropouts. We also have two extension phones, but they are both wireless/cordless. I’ve scratched my head and have never been able to identify anything in the house which might interfere with the wifi signal.  I did buy one of those i-plate insert jobbies but it wouldn’t fit due to the way the extension had been installed. And I’ve changed micro filters several times over the years.
We’ve been with pn for only a couple of months, previously with bt total.
Unfortunately I won’t now be able to run stats again until Thursday, but that should give a good test.
Your thoughts are much appreciated. Cheers!
ArthurDent
Grafter
Posts: 170
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Registered: ‎25-02-2013

Re: An elementary query.

Hello there. Herewith another set of line stats. Router has been on but due to absence there's not been a great deal of activity. Renewed thanks

DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 3 days, 1:20:16
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4.576
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 395,84 / 1,55
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,4 / 18,8
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31,5 / 53,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 16,0 / 6,1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 18 / -
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / -
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1.893 / -
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 295 / 173.875
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 170 / 2.139
HEC Errors (Up/Down): -70 / 2.139 / 15.703
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: ‎27-04-2007

Re: An elementary query.

Hi there,
What does a speed test at http://speedtester.btwholesale.com show?
Adam
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 Plusnet Help Team
ArthurDent
Grafter
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Registered: ‎25-02-2013

Re: An elementary query.

Further:
This afternoon we had three wifi dropouts (not ethernet) in fairly short order, each of which I attempted to correct by hitting the green wifi button on the front of the TG582n.  Impatient after these three instances I hit the black button on the back of it, which of course has set up a new ip address and restarted line stats which are now as follows –
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:25:05
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4.544
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 7,01 / 43,90
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 18,7
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31,5 / 53,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14,0 / 6,3
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3 / -
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 626
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4
HEC Errors (Up/Down): - / 4 / 21
Adam, in response to your query, after the reset mentioned above speed testing results for this non-fibre set-up from 1745hrs today were –
BT: 3.82Mbps dl (profile 4.08Mbps), 0 .35Mbps ul (profile 0.45Mbps),
Thinkbroadband: 3.75Mbps basic dl, 0.35Mbps basic ul,
Speedtest.net: 3.79Mbps dl, 0.36Mbps ul, ping 55ms. But using cmd as suggested here has just given min 29ms and max 31ms ping.
In view of a post on this thread I now tend not to use bt figures, and I now fully accept that speeds we can expect  are going to be little different from what we got from bt total.
Dropouts are an entirely different matter. I am now seriously dissatisfied with this router (this being our 2nd TG582n). I have not tried powering down totally nor a different gateway, but I wish I’d hung on to our homehub ...
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: An elementary query.

Firstly to clarify a couple of things, there is nothing wrong with the speed test results from the BT Wholesale Tester, it is the ping figures that should not be relied up. Nor should you rely on ping results from speedtest.net - more accurate figures will be obtained from pingtest.net or from the Cmd prompt.
Secondly, hitting the black button on the back of the modem/router is a complete power down, and is not a good idea as you lose sync with the exchange, these events can be seen by the exchange Dynamic Line Management (DLM) as connection drops, this can result in slower speed if DLM raises the Target Noise Margin or if the speed gets banded on a 21CN exchange.
If I've understood this correctly, your fundamental problem is losing wireless connectivity? Can you be a bit more specific about the sequence of events - and does the Green WiFi light on the modem/router go out when this happens? Do any of the other lights go out or change colour?
It could be that the WiFi channel you are using is also being used by another nearby network and is causing you interference.
Just to go back on a couple of other points, sorry I meant to post this the other day, but it got overlooked -
The i-Plate may not fit because it could be too modern an NTE5a but having said that, is the logo on the front of it the BT Piper or is it Openreach? How long ago roughly was the extension fitted?
So if I've got the picture correct, you have one extension socket the other side of the hall, into which is plugged a filter, into which is plugged the modem/router and a cordless phone base station. Is the cordless phone a DECT type?
Also, there a several aspects to speed tests. First, WiFi is potentially prone to interfering signals as well as signal strength issues. So to check for line/exchange side issues etc, checks should always be done with an Ethernet connection.
But looking at the stats is the most important thing in the first instance. Your sync speed will determine the BT IP Profile for the line and it is this that is the absolute maximum download speed that you can achieve. This figure also has to be reflected in your Current Line speed (Login required) and sometimes can lag behind by a few days.
Also be aware you sync speed or Gateway will make no difference to problems with WiFi drops.