Abysmal Download speed

[#1]

Hi James,
A quick PS to my last... We bristle with filters on our various phones and the master socket. I re-read your reply (very quick it was too) and realized that I had not answered properly. Sorry.
colintivy (humble again)

[#2]

You might think that nothing has changed, but routers can fail, wiring (internal and BT) can corrode, other electrical equipment in the area can cause interference etc etc. Posting the line statistics from the router will be useful.

[#3]

Quote

This makes experiments a bit difficult and likely to be subject to adverse comment from management

to be able to test for faults on your side of the line and not incur a fee if a bt engineer vists and finds the fault on your side of the line i can only see 2 options.
1. buy a long length of ethernet cable(can be picked up cheap) and place router next to the master socket / test socket and run the ethernet to your pc. (not ideal if routing the cable through house is difficult)
2 go wireless
As for the 2 theards you could ask a mod(oldjim) to merge the theards for you
Looking at the other theard your router must of stayed sync'ed above 3600 for a gd period of time 1-3 days depending on how big the increase in sync speed the exchange equipment saw for jameseh to beable to put PN profile to 3000. with just this info alone it would seem if its a noise problem that it dosent happen daily most likely.
EDIT
Looking at other thread and i can see a comment by you about oldjim giveing advise on getting data from the 210.
I would belive his surrgested using router stats and DMT. This would be great if you get them running as router stats can be left running and capture SNR and sync speed graphs and we will be able to see how frequent and how bad the resync events are or you might just find that the resync events happen when say you switch a certain light on ect

[#4]

Looking at other thread and i can see a comment by you about oldjim giveing advise on getting data from the 210.
I would belive his surrgested using router stats and DMT. This would be great if you get them running as router stats can be left running and capture SNR and sync speed graphs...

Hi ASBO DOG!
Thanks for all that. Sorry for delay, agriculture in garden has kept me off the keyboard. Your detailed reply indicates much wisdom on these matters.
I might try the long Ethernet line but it will have to be about 20M long!! For now I am loath to go wireless, it seems a good source of additional problems from posts that I have read. Since leaving the router on (24/7 or switching off late at night) I am not failing to connect to PN straight away very often.
You might note that I have said that the Master Socket (over 20 years old) is a plain one with no test socket or built-in filters (is it necessary to prod BT to get one fitted?). It does have an ADSL filter dangling on its little lead with the phone plugged in. I have followed oldjim's advice and found the stats output from the 210. I will post the interesting figures some time. What intrigues me is that I have not found the technique for letting the system run and provide graphs so far. Any clues?  I have not downloaded DMT so far, is it part of that program?
colintivy 🙂

[#5]

Hi Denzil,
I can follow your thoughts OK, no particular ideas of even small deterioration so far.
A typical example of stat from router 210. I note that there is no readout of S/N ratio given.
Line Rate 2016 K down / 448 up
Noise Margin 14.9db down /  15.0db  up
Line Atten. 43.0db  down /  24db up
Power o/p  18.0dbm down / 11.9dbm up
Present performance:-  Down 699K/  375K  up from MBS. Still not very good.
Hope these help.  How do I get graphs from letting the system run? I have not downloaded DMT yet, does this have the facility or do I have to use OOo.calc or equivalent?
colintivy  🙂
adie:quote

[#6]

sn ratio also = noise margin when reported on routers
try runing router stats for snr graphs http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm and dmt for looking at bit loading values

[#7]

The noise margin is quite high. The ideal figure is 6dB, but the exchange will set it higher if it sees what it thinks are too many disconnections or too many errors. A higher noise margin leads to a lower sync rate, which is why the speed goes down. You might not necessarily be aware of the disconnections, if they happen when the PC is turned off or you are not actively downloading anything.
The bad news is that disconnections can be difficult to track down. Your router should have logs with are worth looking at (accessed from the web interface somewhere). It should keep a record of lost connections. You might be able to spot a pattern, perhaps, e.g. if they are at the same time as your central heating or street lights come on.

[#8]

You need DMT or RouterStats to do the graphing. Try RouterStats as this gives more graphing options. I would suggest you set the sample rate at 8 seconds and 900 points per graph, which will give you a 2hr plot per graph.
See that attached screenshots for these and other suggested settings.
As for the stats direct from your router the ones of most interest (usually) are the ADSL lines stats (Downstream & Upstream) Sync (connection rate), Attenuation, and SNRM (Noise Margin).

[#9]

The idea of of removing the faceplate of a master socket and pluging into the test socket is make sure all extensions are disconnected so you can make sure there not picking intrefence up and degrading the broadband signal.
Which if there is still a problem the only other things that could cause the drops is router,filter and rare cases the lead from router to socket.
After these have bein swaped and ruled out you can be sure if bt engineer comes out you will not be charged for it as you have ruled the problem out being on your side of the line.

Quote

is it necessary to prod BT to get one fitted

its not necessary and iam not sure how much bt charge to install a new master.
Are your extensions hard wired to this old master socket or are they DIY plug in ones?
if you can advise on the wiring setup we can inform you the best way to conduct the tests.

[#10]

I believe the new installation of an NTE5 costs £25+VAT if you go through BT.

[#11]

Trouble is, depends on who you get through to at BT   You can get a range from that correct price to one which is more expensive than a new line  (which of course comes with a new Master!).
As ASBO has said, if you indicate what extension wiring you have, if any,  then some better advise can be offered. Meanwhile this is too confusing having 2 threads running on essential your one problem. The other is more appropriately titled, I'm going to ask a mod to merge them.

[#12]

Hi Colin,
Hopefully the Router Switching thread will get merged into this, meanwhile have re-read both, can you download DMT v8.07, run it, take a snapshot (easiest way to do that is DMT File menu topLH corner, 1st option) and post that here. That sync speed you reported in the post #19 is truely abysmal
Edit: Modify reference since thread merge

[#13]

Hi Anotherone,
Thanks for the mass of advice. I am glad that the two threads have now come together, they did start out as separate problems but, as you now know, commonality developed.
Because of the layout of the the house and its BT wiring, I do have a lot of DIY extensions which might be a contributory cause. Never the less my problems have only just arisen, as said earlier, with absolutely no changes known to have occurred here after best part of a year of reasonable but not spectacular performance. They did pick up for a brief time, after a prodding by James but soon went back again. I am delighted to report that today @16.40 MBS gives me:- down1365K / up 374K which is much better. I  have been keeping the 210 switched on most of most days and off at night as recommended.
I will look into Router Stats (I have not installed Wine yet) and DMT and advise. I am not over keen on getting BT involved except as a last resort. Even a very long Ethernet cable could be an interesting experiment, but there is always SWMBO to contend with on that score !!  I have downloaded your JPGs thank you.
colintivy 🙂

[#14]

Extension wiring is fairly notorious for causing noise problems. The easiest way to check is to plug the router into the test socket which you will find y unscrewing the bottom half of the BT master socket. Plugging in here disconnects all your internal wiring. Then post the new connection figures from the router.