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ADSL intermittent drops after home move

The_10th
Grafter
Posts: 1,093
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Registered: ‎08-04-2007

ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Hi
Having moved house not long ago to a new build (and a new phone line installed) I have been experiencing very intermittent drops in the connection which is hard to pin down and causing speed drops.
I used a Voyager 2110 and old netgear 834 as well as currently a new 2704N router. The errors noticed on the Voyager showed low number of Superframe and HEC errors. The Netgear didn't show this but have seen the 2704N was showing low numbers of the same errors (20 or so SF and about 60 HEC). Just checked and noticed uplink sync has dropped from 1223kbps to 1208kbps and saw the SF errors jumped to 565 and the HEC to 4230. There was a drop at 1635hrs today after about 23hrs uptime. Downstream/Upstream Noise margin on 2704N is 3.2/6 dB respectively.
BT came out and replaced the master socket and performed a test but couldn't see a fault on the line (as expected) and this was before I tried a 2704N router.
Any ideas as can see this dragging on and don't want to go to Fibre with any underlying problems on going? I did have a ticket open raised on 1st May (Ticket 103398426).
Edit - Ticket number added
22 REPLIES
The_10th
Grafter
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Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

HEC errors now showing 4320 down (6 upstream) and Superframe errors 573 down (7 up).
JayG
Pro
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Registered: ‎30-10-2011

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

All connections have some errors, and many lose connection 'very intermittently' if not more often (depends on definition) - not sure what sort of problem you think you have.
If you copy and paste the full DSL stats from whichever router you are currently using (including uptime) it may give a clearer idea about how your line is performing.
The_10th
Grafter
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Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move


Statistics -- xDSL
 

Mode: ADSL_2plus   
Traffic Type: ATM   
Status: Up   
Link Power State: L0   
 
  Downstream Upstream   
Line Coding(Trellis): On On   
SNR Margin (1 dB): 3.3 5.9   
Attenuation (1 dB): 19.5 10.1   
Output Power (1 dBm): 0.0 12.6   
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 21924 1208   
 
  Path 0  Path 1 
  Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 22039 1208 0 0
 
MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message): 52 12 0 0
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 254 37 0 0
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1 1 0 0
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 3 4 0 0
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 0 0 0 0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.3697 1.0000 0.0 0.0
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame): 5517 304 0 0
D (interleaver depth): 1 1 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0
 
Super Frames: 0 0 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 573 7 0 0
RS Words: 0 2043150 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 0 0 0
 
HEC Errors: 4320 6 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 3427449704 187557324 0 0
Data Cells: 59373674 7794170 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 128 0 0
 
Total ES: 35 6   
Total SES: 13 0   
Total UAS: 63 52   

Connection is dropping intermittently.
JayG
Pro
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Registered: ‎30-10-2011

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Hopefully someone from CRT will post your Radius log to show how frequently the drops are occurring.
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: ‎24-07-2014

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

I hope this is of use ...
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image1431361710864.png"/>
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Tony T
 Plusnet Help Team
The_10th
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Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Thanks Tony
Still getting errors after the Faults' team fixed downstream SNR to 6dB instead of the 3.3dB it was auto-discovering itself. Have noticed at least one drop in the last 3 days. Back to the faults squad...
Would it be prudent to stay on ADSL until this is fixed or migrate to Fibre or would these problems still persist if on the local loop?
Quote
Updated statistics from 2704N
Mode: ADSL_2plus
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 3.9 5.8
Attenuation (1 dB): 19.5 10.1
Output Power (1 dBm): 0.0 12.2
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 21680 1192
Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 21291 1191 0 0
MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message): 51 12 0 0
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 252 36 0 0
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1 1 0 0
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 3 4 0 0
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 0 0 0 0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.3797 0.9866 0.0 0.0
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame): 5330 300 0 0
D (interleaver depth): 1 1 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0
Super Frames: 0 0 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 499 40 0 0
RS Words: 0 2501457 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 0 0 0
HEC Errors: 160 47 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 837926759 286874604 0 0
Data Cells: 60767596 4324213 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 159 0 0
Total ES: 47 25
Total SES: 10 0
Total UAS: 116 106
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

There were a couple of drops on Thursday but aside from that it looks relatively stable to me.

If there were any issues between the cabinet and your property then you could have issues however on the other hand if the fault lies between the cabinet and the exchange swapping to fibre would remove that out of the equation.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
The_10th
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Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Thanks.
Shouldn't be dropping like that so still indicates a fault and the Faults' team said this should be not dropping.
My concern is upgrading to Fibre has a potential chance (50%) of continuing with this fault so may be prudent to cancel it until this gets fixed.
The_10th
Grafter
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Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

One more thing that I would like to add which is the Downstream SNR on the 2110 router and 2704N were/is hitting just over the 3dB mark resulting in higher-end sync speed of up to 22Mbps and of course real-life downloads of over 18Mbps. Is 3dB not acceptable for an ADSL2+ product as the faults' team raised this to 6dB but since then (3 days or so) have had a couple of drops in one day (14/5) for no apparent reason? Now SNR is back to over 3dB and sync was 21Mbps but still getting HEC and Superframe errors (which was observed when SNR was set to 6dB by Plusnet for the Downstream service).
I have a VDSL in-built filter socket which the modem plugs directly into in the top RJ11 socket. The phone for the house is then plugged directly into the lower socket (without a filter). I was getting drops with the 2110 router connected to the master socket - again these were intermittent - perhaps one or two a day then could be 40hrs and another drop.
Edit: Discovered another drop at least one at 2244hrs last night (15/5) - alerted to this as sync had changed
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 3.1 6.5
Attenuation (1 dB): 19.0 10.1
Output Power (1 dBm): 0.0 11.8
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 21824 1180

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 21999 1176 0 0
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

As JayG mentioned, all connections will see some errors. The figures (HECs & SF) you quoted in your first few posts were I'm afraid pretty meaningless without the Uptime. I'm surprised no-one has pointed that out. In any event, those particular figures don't seem especially out of the way unless the connection had only been up for a few seconds.
You will find Uptime in 2 places on the 2704n - on line 6 on the Helpdesk page (if you copy and paste the page delete the info from lines 16 & 26) - this one is the connection uptime. If you've logged in as expert_user, the time you'll find on the Device Info Summary page at the bottom of the first box is the Hardware Uptime (time since power up or reboot). Both these times can be of interest if doing analysis of error figures.
If you copy and post the info from the Device Info Summary page (or any page) be careful to delete the WAN IP address or MAC address etc.
I do share your concern about the drops though and about any move to Fibre whilst this is happening.
Looking at the full detailed stats that you have posted, the speeds you are seeing are quite good for the relatively shortish line. The line length makes these drops even more of a concern.
As far as SNRMis concerned, the Target SNRMs are in 3dB steps, ie 6dB, 3dB, 9dB etc. The shorter the line, any significant variations in SNRM whilst the connection is active are also of concern suggesting excessive noise/interference of some type.
On the more recent stats 3.9dB suggests a bigger variation than I would expect.
Based on what you have said, I suspect that Faults did not set the SNRM at 6dB, but did a line reset which defaults to 6dB (this information should be on your ticket).  DLM may have now tried reducing it to 3dB - if not, the noise variation is excessive.
Again, the fact you are getting HEC or Superframe errors is of no concern - what is important is the number you are getting for the Connection Uptime.
I would also be careful about interpretation of information from your older modem/routers as their age can have issues with electrolytic capacitor failures which can give odd results, but the fact that they give similar issues (drops) to the 2704n is helpful.
However, looking at the 2704n full DSL stats again what is of more concern is the BIt Errors.
At the bottom of the Expert_user Device Info Statistics - xDSL page, you will find a "xDSL BER Test" button. Can you press that and post the results.
You should also do some other basic checks.
Is that a Mk3 vDSL plate that's fitted to your Master socket? Are there any extension phone sockets in the house? If so, if you remove the lower front faceplate from the master socket (the bit the phone is plugged into) there should be the extension wiring connected and whilst the plate is removed, all extension phone sockets should be dead -can you confirm?
Can you hear/have you heard any crackling or other noises on the line when using the phone? Have you had any problems with incoming or outgoing calls? Do the Quiet Line Test 17070 Option 2 if need be.
Are you using any extension leads between the vDSL plate and the modem/router?
The_10th
Grafter
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Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Quote
Device Info:

Your Plusnet adviser may ask you for the following information:
1 - Product name: Plusnet Router
3 - Firmware version: 7.273.1_F2704N_Plusnet
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 1 days 01:27:46
7 - Data rate: 1176/21999
8 - Maximum data rate: 1168/21520
9 - Noise margin: 6.4/2.6
10 - Line attenuation: 10.1/19.0
Hardware uptime:
Uptime: 5D 9H 18M 3S

Quote

Result of BERT (have performed these a few times before already on the 2704N with no errors returned:
ADSL BER Test - Result
The ADSL BER test completed successfully.
Test Time (sec): 360
Total Transferred Bits: 0x00000001AB83C300
Total Error Bits: 0x0000000000000000
Error Ratio: 0.00e+00

Downstream SNR is dropping to 2.6dB which I also observed with the Voyager 2110 when that was in use.
It is a brand new phone line on a new development with houses still being constructed across the street from me. Faults' team wanted to fix the SNR to 6dB as they state this is the target SNR but couldn't set it because I have an order for Fibre which is preventing this. It is likely what you said and would have no doubt stayed at 6dB but for the loss of sync resulting in an auto-sync with the DSLAM giving me a 3dB downstream speed and better speed of course than with 6dB. I am within 250M at a guess of my local cabinet. Is it such a bad SNR to be at 3dB as I would obviously want to acheive max speed without an artificial cap being applied which may be masking an underlying fault?
I have one brand new wired extension socket in the house but this has been unconnected to anything. No noticeable noises or problems with calls when used but hasn't been in use much as we tend to use our mobiles for calls. Did carry out a quiet line test and this sounds quite quiet with just a feint sound of white noise in the background, no crackling etc.
Don't know if the wall socket is a Mark 3 but it was installed the time a BT engineer came and carried out tests on the copper but couldn't see any faults. He replaced the previous socket (non VDSL) to this one with the two outlets top and bottom.
No extension leads in between modem and router just a single RJ11 cable.
Carried out a speedtest.net test which shows the following:

Edit @ 1638hrs
Added expert_user stats which shows big jump in bit errors too from the 10 before (Hardware Uptime: 6D 2H 12M 59S)
Quote
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 2.7 6.4
Attenuation (1 dB): 19.0 10.1
Output Power (1 dBm): 0.0 11.8
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 21584 1184

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 21999 1176 0 0

MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message): 52 12 0 0
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 254 36 0 0
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1 1 0 0
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 3 4 0 0
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 0 0 0 0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.3704 1.0000 0.0 0.0
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame): 5507 296 0 0
D (interleaver depth): 1 1 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 0 0 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 1008 64 0 0
RS Words: 0 2244806 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 1654 226 0 0
OCD Errors: 11 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 11 0 0 0
Total Cells: 510376344 485662129 0 0
Data Cells: 229683142 14455074 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 8291 0 0

Total ES: 78 31
Total SES: 20 0
Total UAS: 289 269
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Is the extension socket wiring actually connected, rather than whether or not it's in use? Sorry I wasn't sure what you meant.
If it was a Mk3 plate it would be clearly visibly marked in the top right hand front corner of the plate.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Just seen your edit, in view of the BER results, if they are still zero, that's good, so I'm wondering if the expert_user Bit Errors are actually bit errors in that sense. What's the connection uptime for those last stats?
The_10th
Grafter
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Re: ADSL intermittent drops after home move

Phone extension not connected but wiring is connected to master socket
My apologies, it's a MK3 openreach marked socket
Connection uptime for last stats: Uptime: 1 days 18:23:06