ADSL can drop connection for hours

[#1]

Hi,

This his been happening sometimes for months now and I was putting up with it as "one of those things" but it happened just over a week ago and just happened today, and my patience has gone, it needs sorted. I know from past experience someone at plusnet can probably have a quick look at logs THEIR end, so here's hoping. Problem Description:

Router = Draytek Vigor 2850 with VOIP. I can't find my ancient router to test that unfortunately. But most days this one is fine.

Phone Audible Test: Absolutely no crackling, perfect.

Symptoms: ADSL will stop working and not reconnect. Manually logging on and reconneting ADSL etc doesn't help. Power off router and waiting 10-15 seconds doesn't help. Powering off and waiting 15-30 minutes doesn't always help though sometimes MIGHT, and switching it off for longer periods maybe helps more, but as it eventually recovers who knows! If I look at the Draytek WAN syslog and it's full of this sort of thing. It's clearly trying hard and can't connect to ADSL.

2023-01-09 15:28:35     DSL: DSL Rebooting...
 2023-01-09 15:28:26     DSL: DSL Rebooting... !
This can go on for HOURS, which is very frustrating. Late last year after hours of failureI switched it off overnight after hours of failure and it worked in the morning .. I wondered if I was allocated to a different piece of equipment or something? It surely won't be an overheating issue at the router, especially this time of year, and not if being off 10 minutes doesn't help. When it IS working, it can work for days, weeks with no issue, today is 9th Jan and last time it happened was before New Year.

My instincts are something is wrong at the other end to me, exchange or whtever. I'll post an interesting log:

I don't want this to sidetrack the issue as this is a rarer log event, normally it's just DSL rebooting over and over. Time is default as I'd been messing with restarting router. Question is (and I think I've seen this before) in THIS instance about 45-60 minutes ago, everything seems to connect, THEN there is a "term[ination] request" from the physical layer. Why is THAT happening? 3 times in this section of log? It reads like it connects THEN is told to sod off again by the exchange end? It's clearly done the complete connection sequence with the other end so it IS speaking to the other end at that point.

 2000-01-01 00:18:02     DSL: DSL Rebooting...
 2000-01-01 00:17:57     DSL: Modem Shut Down from ADSL Phy Layer (0)
 2000-01-01 00:17:57     DSL: DSL Rebooting...
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN 1 is down.
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN1 PPPoE ==> Protocol:LCP(c021) TermReq Identifier:0x02 ##
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     DSL: DSL SHOWTIME
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN 1 is up.
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN1 PPPoE <== Protocol:IPCP(8021) ConfAck Identifier:0x02 IP Address: X Primary Domain Name Server: 212 159 6 9 Secondary Domain Name Server: 212 159 6 10 ##
<snip>
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN1 PPPoE <== Protocol:CHAP(c223) Success Identifier:0x48 ##
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN1 PPPoE ==> Protocol:CHAP(c223) Response Identifier:0x48
<snip>
 2000-01-01 00:17:56     WAN1 PPPoE ==> V:1 T:1 PADI ID:0
 2000-01-01 00:17:24     DSL: DSL Rebooting...
<snip>
 2000-01-01 00:14:56     statistic: Session Usage: 353 (5 min average)
 2000-01-01 00:14:54     DSL: Modem Shut Down from ADSL Phy Layer (0)
 2000-01-01 00:14:54     DSL: DSL Rebooting...

Anyway hopefully someone at plusnet can have a look at their end, or do I need to raise a support ticket?

[#2]

There are no xDSL events in that log extract - I suspect that they would be more informative.  Best to check through the basics on this first...

Broadband is not going to work well if the "phone" line is not working properly.

Please perform a quiet line test - dial 17070 select option 2 using a phone plugged into the test socket behind the face plate of the master socket (ideally this should be a corded phone). The line should be silent. A noisy phone line (or no dial tone) will have a marked adverse impact on the performance of broadband.

If the line is noisy or there is no dial tone, then a PHONE LINE fault needs to be raised with your phone provider. If this is PlusNet, you can report a fault on line using the button below. NB: You need to put your LANDLINE NUMBER after "PHONE" [missing instruction].

• Phone Faults

How is your line performing?

Please post your router stats (include line speed, attenuation, SNRM, uptime and if available, error counts); for PN routers use the buttons below, for other routers look at the Kitz link.

Also run a BT Wholesale speed test (ideally using an Ethernet wired PC with the WiFi turned off) then run the further diagnostics, download the .PDF report and post the results here. DO NOT REBOOT the router!

Check the Plusnet user portal for the "Current Line Speed" which is relevant to users with static IP addresses.

• TG582n Stats
• Hub 0 / 1 Stats
• Hub 2 Stats
• Kitz list
• BTw Speedtest
• PN Broadband Status

[#3]

Hi,

As I say the final log was unusual and I just threw it in as an "extra". Normally the issue is just constant "DSL Rebooting" as it can't connect, with the odd extra wierd log like that thrown in. The phone line as I say seemed perfectly clear. I didn't go to the test socket but I did your 17070/2 test and it worked and was absolutely silent, that phone will be into the splitter the router is connected to so a good test. I just gave the splitter/cabling a wiggle as a test and the internet connection is still rock solid.

I had a cable problem quite a few years ago and I do remember when I posted on here someone at plusnet checked something their end. When it's connected it IS really solid, that's the thing, just once in a while these long connect issues that restarting the router doesn't solve. This is a copy/paste from the currently connected router stats, I'm sure it has all you need:

System Uptime: 0day 1:27:13

ADSL Information       ( ADSL Firmware Version:  232201_A)
  ATM Statistics    TX Cells    RX Cells    TX CRC errs    RX CRC errs
      355662    5947429    0    1
  ADSL Status    Mode    State    Up Speed    Down Speed    SNR Margin    Loop Att.
      ADSL2(G.992.3)    SHOWTIME    1192000    6648972    21    25

[#4]

There is lots wrong here.

A line with a 25db attenuation should be running around 18mbps - yours is 6mbps and that is a reflection of the 21dB SNRM.

That suggests that are issues on the line / in the environment.  A quite line suggests the possibility of REIN.

Which router are you using?  It would be helpful to see if routerstats is compatible with it - see the link below.

You need to raise a broadband fault report (use the link below) - cite speed and stability issues - last uptime is just a shade short of 90 minutes.

[#5]

It's a 2850vn. It doesn't seem to work with routerstats. As I say, it's solid when it's working. I've no new electrical equipment or anything that I can think of that would cause issues and anyway it runs solid most of the time. There is no line noise when it's not working.It's not like any problem I've had before.

Yes the uptime is from me restatring, it wasn't working again today and I posted once it came up again.

[#6]

The line stats are not good - raising a fault report can do no harm.

[#7]

I'll report it soon I think, was busy today. It just dropped again for 5 minutes. I got RouterStats *Lite* to work and I can see the SNR was rock solid 21/22 then dropped and then came back to 21/22. I also had the router logging and the WAN log is:

1662023-01-10 18:45:03Jan 10 18:44:58VigorDSL:  LineFailure Update: DSL_G997_LINEFAILURE_LOS
1662023-01-10 18:45:03Jan 10 18:44:58VigorDSL:  NE Loss of Signal, rebooting DSL state machine
1662023-01-10 18:45:03Jan 10 18:44:58VigorDSL:  LineFailure Update: DSL_G997_LINEFAILURE_LOS
1662023-01-10 18:45:03Jan 10 18:44:59VigorWAN1 PPPoE ==> Protocol:LCP(c021) TermReq Identifier:0x02  ##
1662023-01-10 18:45:03Jan 10 18:44:59VigorWAN 1 is down.
1662023-01-10 18:45:04Jan 10 18:45:00VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...
1662023-01-10 18:45:05Jan 10 18:45:00VigorDSL:  Modem Shut Down from ADSL Phy Layer (0)
1662023-01-10 18:45:07Jan 10 18:45:03VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...
1662023-01-10 18:47:18Jan 10 18:47:12VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...5
1662023-01-10 18:49:19Jan 10 18:49:12VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...IPLM
1662023-01-10 18:49:29Jan 10 18:49:22VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...
1662023-01-10 18:51:42Jan 10 18:51:34VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...5
1662023-01-10 18:52:04Jan 10 18:51:55VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...
1662023-01-10 18:52:36Jan 10 18:52:27VigorDSL:  DSL SHOWTIME
1662023-01-10 18:52:36Jan 10 18:52:27VigorDSL:  DSL Rebooting...
1662023-01-10 18:52:36Jan 10 18:52:27VigorDSL:  Modem Shut Down from ADSL Phy Layer (0)
1662023-01-10 18:53:12Jan 10 18:53:03VigorDSL:  DSL SHOWTIMEIPLM.

And a long search I found my venerable speedtouch (in a stupid place of course) and was going to plug it in. I plugged it in anyway [when it appeared working so proves nothing re status of normal router] and the stats it gives are these, if these shed any light but to me show same figures.

Uptime:    0 days, 0:02:32
Modulation:    G.992.5 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:    1.064 / 6.655
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]:    106,00 / 1,08
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:    12,0 / 14,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:    13,5 / 27,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:    7,0 / 22,5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):    TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):    0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):    0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):    0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):    0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):    1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):    0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down):    1.662 / 1
HEC Errors (Up/Down):    167 / 0

I'm intrigued I don't see the retrains I used to see if logged on when things connect.

[#8]

The key issue here is that the SNRM figures are very wrong and the sync speed for your line's attenuation is not good.  This NEEDS a fault raising as a matter of priority.

[#9]

Hi @Kwak, I've just been looking into this for you and can see that line tests are showing a "copper line fault" as the landline is with another provider you'd just need to get in touch with them. Do you use the line for calls at all? 

Adam

[#10]

Oh dear that does muddy the water!

Copper (voice) circuit fault impacts broadband, but ownership of the copper circuit is elsewhere.

Copper circuit provider says I see no voice service fault ... go away.

Such circumstances question the wisdom of having voice and broadband from different suppliers.

@Kwak - there is little point continuing this issue here until you have fixed the phone line issue with your other supplier.

Broadband is not going to work well if the "phone" line is not working properly.

Please perform a quiet line test - dial 17070 select option 2 using a phone plugged into the test socket behind the face plate of the master socket (ideally this should be a corded phone). The line should be silent. A noisy phone line (or no dial tone) will have a marked adverse impact on the performance of broadband.

If the line is noisy or there is no dial tone, then a PHONE LINE fault needs to be raised with your phone provider. If this is PlusNet, you can report a fault on line using the button below. NB: You need to put your LANDLINE NUMBER after "PHONE" [missing instruction].

• Phone Faults

[#11]

Hi,

Thanks for that. I'll answer last 2 posts in one.

I thought there were plusnet staff around as I've had a totally different problem before and someone who had access looked at my line, was an in internal wiring issue. Yes I still do use my landline though rarely, I like to have it as I find my mobile less reliable and family have it. Years ago I had a BT engineer out and he redid the wiring from where it enters my property to the box I plug into and I think that's sound. Do I NEED to use this test socket to test? As I say in normal socket on the splitter I can hear absolutely ZERO crackling when I lift the receiver and I did the silent test and it was all absolutely perfect. It's a wierd issue as it is totally just on/off, it's not "a bit flaky over a period with random reconnects". I've HAD a crackly line before and saw the reconnects it caused, and it was as you would expect - flaky. (I had it another time with a duff phone extension plugged in parallel).

I did some messing last night (no doubt showing reconnects at pnet) and it did the speed negotiation sequences and it just settled same as before.

I've at least found my old router,  (speedtouch 716) so I can test with that. I also upgraded the firmware in the 2850, it definitely can handle 2+. Oh that's a point, I did notice it's 922.3 it connects with, should it not be .5 or is the line too pants?

ADSL2(G.992.3)

SHOWTIME

1192000

6648978

21

25

[#12]

Last time I had BT out they were going to charge a bomb for the callout never mind work, it was waived as the problem I had was caused by the previous engineer doing a cowboy wiring job - he had ran the main phone cable just lying under the carpet right across the main hall walking route and a few years of walking on it + a shampoing had lead to more crackling than a pub snack selection.

If I transfer landline to Plusnet is it basically a computer click admin thing and I keep the same number and just billing changes OR do the have to rejig wiring at the exchange etc?

PSTN switch off is less than 2 years away, what happens then?

WAIT:  plusnet are part of BT, are plusnet saying that BT won't look at a fault for a company that's part of BT in the first place?

[#13]

Plusnet is part of the Consumer Division Group, as is EE but they are all separate companies.

You need to bite the bullet here and raise a voice service fault with BT Retail.  Those broadband metrics are pants and Plusnet's testing has identified a coper circuit fault, which requires rectification.

If you want to consider moving your phone service to Plusnet, the quickest approach is to contact COTs ... they will also advise on the best deal for your broadband.

Contact Customer Options Team (aka COTS)

COTs is the place to go to if you want to find out anything to do with your contract in respect of leaving, renewing or simply enquiring about early termination charges (ETCs). They have their own number and tend to answer quicker than the general customer service number.

Direct dial numbers

• 0800 013 2632 (from within the UK)
• +44 330 123 9197 (from abroad)
• Available...
  • 8am - 8pm Monday to Friday
  • 9am - 7pm Saturday
  • 9am - 6pm Sunday

[#14]

But there is no voice line fault and you were saying they'd tell me to sod off if there wasn't one? I don't want to sound stupid here but .. I was trained as an Electronic Engineer and my instincts are not right about that and they are normally right. I don't understand why, if when the fault happens, the audio line quality can be 100% spot on, absolutely as perfect as can be, if there is a fault with the physical line from me to exchange, it's the same physical wire. If there was intermittent high frequency interference or something odd that somehow clobbered part of the higher frequency spectrum I can imagine the SNR might drop a bit but this is absolutely binary on/off, it's like a switch, and there is no pattern. I was suspecting a fault at the exchange, perhaps with iffy wiring at the actual ADSL hardware other end or some actual ADSL hardware failing either my end or exchange end. It speaks strongly to me as being an ADSL end to end only problem. Including possibly my router (thus the old one is now to hand) but the fact powering off and on has no effect leans a bit away from that.

I was messing about with my own wiring yesterday and plugging back and forth between routers and plugging in and out my second phone extension cable to look at SNRs etc that I know made the ADSL drop repeatedly so I've not idea if that raised a new false flag at plusnet today.

[#15]

No, I am saying that they might tell you to go away.  You are correct about the risk, but the BTOR relationship for the copper circuit is lead by the voice service owner.  Have you asked yet?

BT Retail provide on-line fault testing ... which should find the same copper circuit issue identified by Plusnet.