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ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

razzleultra
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 16-12-2009

ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

I'm currently pursuing this fault with support at the same time, but just thought I'd try and gather some more info from the forum.
Basically, if we receive a call on the landline the ADSL loses sync within about 30s (strange that it's not immediate?).  After the call's ended it resyncs again fine.
What I've tested:
- Microfilters.  I'm confident it's not the microfilter as I've tried three different filters, all different brands.
- Test socket.  Still causes a disconnection.
- Line noise.  The quiet line (17070 - 2) is perfectly clear with no noise
Other info:
- I'm not on LLU but I am on ADSL2+
- I have got the increased upload speed option (~1meg)
- My router is a DrayTek 2860n+
- Router stats are 35db attenuation and 9db SNR Margin with ZERO CRC errors
- Download speeds are ~11meg
- When the ADSL is up I have no problems with the internet connection
I think we're headed towards an engineer visit.  I'm worried he'll try and blame the equipment but in my opinion I've ruled everything out. 
Surely the router shouldn't be able to tell when the phone line is ringing?  If it can be affected by calls then (as far as I can tell) it means either the filter is knackered (which I've tested) or there's some kind of problem on the line.
Anyone have any ideas?
16 REPLIES
runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 521
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

yes, At last !! someone with the same problem and it happened twice this morning. . It's not the router, its not the wiring or the phone socket, so what causes it?  I've had same problem for years now and multiple engineer visits. No one has ever sorted it or can give any explanation. PN can see the disconnects and drop in  syncs and re-syncs.
The only idea I have ever had - but this has nver been acknowledged by OR staff is that the ring signal on the line is pulsing too strongly - too high a voltage perhaps dating from the days of mechanical phones with proper bells which required a stronger ring  pulse to make them ring?
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: 01-01-2012

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

Hi there.
Sometimes these issues can be caused by the line card in the exchange.
All the steps you've gone through proves it isn't internal so I'm confident that there's a issue somewhere down the line.
If you raise a fault at http://faults.plus.net we can get this looked into.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
razzleultra
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 16-12-2009

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

I've already raised this as a fault so hopefully we'll make some progress!  I just wondered if anyone else had seen anything similar as all my searching brought back people with noisy lines.
No idea on the ring signal but my estate is very new (2004) and I believe it'll be served by a fairly new cabinet looking around the area so I'd have thought it unlikely.
My quandry is also somewhat complicated by me going to FTTC in the next few weeks....
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,028
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

I had exactly that problem
Changing the line card didn't fix it
Eventually I got a very conscientious BT engineer who tested the line by looking at the error rates while phoning in
It was eventually fixed by changing my line from the cab to the exchange (I lost 1,000kbps in the process - 4,800 down to 3,800 but it fixed the problem)
runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 521
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

Hi Matt
I have raised a question ( See Question #96132562 )  would you be kind enough to look into it please ? This issue has been looked at at least half a dozen times before and no one has ever suggested a faulty line card though my DSLAM was swapped  in the exchange 18 months ago  in an attempt to solve random loss of sync! It was faulty ( Made no difference to sync cutting out on phone ringing but my ADSL connection speed  improved  by 100% and I would not want to sacrifice that .)   
Sometimes our  phone rings so loudly it nearly jumps out of its cradle,  so could that could be due to an excessively strong  ring signal caused by a line card fault ?

 
Quote from: Matthew
Hi there.
Sometimes these issues can be caused by the line card in the exchange.
All the steps you've gone through proves it isn't internal so I'm confident that there's a issue somewhere down the line.
If you raise a fault at http://faults.plus.net we can get this looked into.
razzleultra
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 16-12-2009

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

Quote from: Matthew
Hi there.
Sometimes these issues can be caused by the line card in the exchange.
All the steps you've gone through proves it isn't internal so I'm confident that there's a issue somewhere down the line.
If you raise a fault at http://faults.plus.net we can get this looked into.

Sorry, I meant to add.  Would you be able to add a note about the line card to my support case or do I need to add this myself?
Community Veteran
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Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

If you plug the router filter direct in to the test socket without plugging in a phone, then ring your number do you see the same issue? When I had the same problem it was logging loads of errors on an incoming call even when there wasn't a physical phone to ring.
Edit: Mine was a specific 20CN Max Premium issue so not directly related to this. The engineer directly clipped his test box on to the bare incoming wires and it was the same. He then went to the exchange and clipped directly on to the wires coming out of the line card and it was still the same!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 521
Thanks: 50
Fixes: 2
Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

In response to JELV It makes no difference if the phone handset  is plugged in or not.  The router still looses sync.
Here is the log of recent events from the router. The last four calls were made with the phone handset unplugged.
Dec 12 13:34:41 PPP link up (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 13:34:38 PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok

Info Dec 12 13:34:37 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = JUNOS)

Info Dec 12 13:34:37 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red11.ls-bas)

Warning Dec 12 13:34:20 PPP link down (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 13:34:05 FIREWALL event (1 of 2): deleted rules

Info Dec 12 13:34:05 xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.1; downstream: 1920 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.6 dBm, Up: 12.3 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 63.5 dB, Up: 31.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.8 dB, Up: 10.0 dB)

Info Dec 12 13:33:46 xDSL linestate down

Info Dec 12 13:33:23 FIREWALL event (1 of 2): modified rules

Info Dec 12 13:33:23 FIREWALL event (1 of 2): created rules

Info Dec 12 13:33:23 xDSL linestate down

Warning Dec 12 13:29:54 PPP link up (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 13:29:50 PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok

Info Dec 12 13:29:50 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = JUNOS)

Info Dec 12 13:29:50 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red11.ls-bas)

Warning Dec 12 13:29:33 PPP link down (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 13:29:23 FIREWALL event (1 of 2): deleted rules

Info Dec 12 13:29:22 xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.1; downstream: 1920 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.6 dBm, Up: 12.3 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 63.5 dB, Up: 31.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.8 dB, Up: 10.0 dB)

Info Dec 12 13:29:05 xDSL linestate down

Info Dec 12 13:28:51 FIREWALL event (1 of 2): modified rules

Info Dec 12 13:28:51 FIREWALL event (1 of 2): created rules

Info Dec 12 13:28:50 xDSL linestate down

Warning Dec 12 13:28:04 PPP link up (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 13:28:03 PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok

Info Dec 12 13:28:03 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = JUNOS)

Info Dec 12 13:28:03 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red11.ls-bas)

Warning Dec 12 13:27:46 PPP link down (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 13:27:25 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): deleted rules

Info Dec 12 13:27:25 xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.1; downstream: 1920 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.6 dBm, Up: 12.3 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 63.5 dB, Up: 31.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.9 dB, Up: 10.0 dB)

Info Dec 12 13:27:07 xDSL linestate down

Info Dec 12 13:27:04 LOGIN User admin logged in on [HTTP] (from 192.168.1.6Cool

Info Dec 12 13:26:52 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): modified rules

Info Dec 12 13:26:52 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules

Info Dec 12 13:26:52 xDSL linestate down

Info Dec 12 12:45:26 SNTP Synchronised to server: 212.159.6.10

Info Dec 12 11:45:26 SNTP Synchronised again to server: 212.159.13.50

Info Dec 12 11:23:30 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): deleted rules

Warning Dec 12 11:23:29 PPP link up (Internet) [80.229.12.140]

Info Dec 12 11:23:26 PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok

Info Dec 12 11:23:26 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = JUNOS)

Info Dec 12 11:23:25 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red11.ls-bas)

Info Dec 12 11:23:09 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): modified rules

Info Dec 12 11:23:09 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules
razzleultra
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 16-12-2009

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

Quote from: jelv
If you plug the router filter direct in to the test socket without plugging in a phone, then ring your number do you see the same issue? When I had the same problem it was logging loads of errors on an incoming call even when there wasn't a physical phone to ring.
Edit: Mine was a specific 20CN Max Premium issue so not directly related to this. The engineer directly clipped his test box on to the bare incoming wires and it was the same. He then went to the exchange and clipped directly on to the wires coming out of the line card and it was still the same!

Still giving the same problem even with no phone plugged in whatsoever.
runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 521
Thanks: 50
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

Likewise!! And always did. I also have a BT/ OR  supplied/ fitted  NTE5 Mk 2 twin socket faceplate with integrated filter. So no problems there
Community Veteran
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Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

That's one less thing a finger can be pointed at! It is what I expected.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
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Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

I have the same issues also. All told been going on for years now. Had umpteen engineers, occ one fixes it for a while, then it comes back. I do have occ noise on the line, but its mainly completely quiet. Whenever plusnet tests the line, there is no fault found. I have always found its worse when using a filtered faceplate. I havs had numerous d side pair chanes, and a couple of lift and shifts. Currently in the test socket with a filter. I noticed it had stopped for a while, but I made a call last night and sync dropped until the call ended. Personally I feel the cable itself from pole to box is of poor quality, as engineers never seem to find an issue. I was told by a particularly knowledgeable engineer that 120m from my house the cable is spliced from copper to aluminum,  where all the other cables from the estate meet, and its aluminium to the cab from there, which woukd only be around anoth 100m or so. .
runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 521
Thanks: 50
Fixes: 2
Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

well,  I reported this fault last week and PN agreed to send an engineer to investigate . Then they checked the line and reported it had stabilized over the weekend so would be cancelling the engineer visit. Pity because i then received immediately 3 phone calls over lunch today which resulted in the line losing sync each time. So now I have raise another fault with PN.
Any more information from anyone else would be gratefully received!
Community Veteran
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Re: ADSL Loses Sync on Incoming Calls - But NOT a noisy line...

Well you both know what you have to do when you have an engineer visit - ring your number using your mobile and show him the fault and don't let him say there is no problem/fault fixed until ringing your number doesn't cause a drop.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)