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ADSL Dropping and poor stats

chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Hi all,
Let me start by saying Im very technical so understand most of the technologies and features being discussed and can follow most things through Telnet/... to get extra info.
Im not sure what has been going on with my Plusnet connection recently but Ive been having very regular disconnections or drops of the internet so I called to check things with support. They said they could see very little on my line in terms of problems from their end so perhaps it was my router (TG582n).
I bought a shiny new Asus AC68U to try and improve things and give me some more power - has taken me a while to get to grips with all the extra features but Im there now. I have paired it with a TP Link 8817 which I know has a different chipset so may take some tweaking to get right (I can see the SNR dropping down to 3dB sometimes but still seems to work ok most of the time) and thats cool. However whilst I no longer get regular dropouts, I do seem to get strange times of slow response and also regularly get high ping times (technically average out ok but with lots of jitter).
This is coupled with poor speeds at the moment and I cant understand why.
Has anybody seen something similar on their line or is it worth asking Plusnet to run some tests on the line before I spend too much more time on it?
Plusnet, please can you post some of my graphs from your systems on here so I can try and understand things a bit better?
Thanks
27 REPLIES
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 6,125
Thanks: 592
Fixes: 231
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Sorry to hear your having issues.
From looking at your connection logs it appears it was very bad on the 8th but has got better recently as shown below.

There isn't anything that jumps straight out at me although your SNR is dropping below the target of 6db to around 3db.
Just to rule out the basics is the router connected into the master socket?
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Thanks for that. I have actually had to create my own master socket as I previously had a very archaic 70's style star wiring and there wasnt a master socket. I have rewired everything from the entry point with very high quality CAT6 shielded cable in a single cable run, so I am confident there are no problems there and dont have any other sockets in the house now. I did this back in September 2014 so confident thats not a problem.
As for the disconnections, the 8th was when I installed the new modem/router combo so that shouldnt be an issue any more, though it definitely looks like disconnections have become more regular since then (probably because of the SNR dropping). Is it possible to raise SNR by 1dB or do you have to go up in 3dB blocks (which I guess doubles the SNR). Is there any way I can experiment with changing some of the settings myself? I couldnt see any settings in the modem which I could configure (nor could I find things in Telnet with a quick look) but I know some modems do claim to support it.
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 6,125
Thanks: 592
Fixes: 231
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

We can only set the SNR target in 3db steps
So for example the options we have are 3db, 6db, 9db, 12db and 15db.
At the moment your on a 6db target so your SNR should fluctuate around this but not drop as low as that.
Tuning the SNR from the router is possible with some brands but I'm not sure if the ASUS is one of them.
What sort of speeds are you seeing and are you running tests over a wired or a wireless connection?
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

I will investigate finding another modem which is capable of doing that tweaking then as it would definitely be better to tweak by 1dB rather than 3 (which would probably take a few mbps off my connection speed). The Asus is only fulfilling the router function so I guess it is the bridging modem that I need to be able to tweak?
It's not so much the speeds that bother me (though sometimes like last night any downloads were running at no more than a few kb/s), more that the connection seems flaky - i.e. Sure Signal/Skype dropouts that sometimes correlate with webpages not loading and high pings. Though perhaps it was just that a new modem needed some time to train? Just strange that it still dropped the line a couple of times. Maybe when coupled with the network capacity issues over the busy weekend it was just a bad time to test a new modem?
As part of my house rewiring project Ive put shielded 10gbps CAT6 cable everywhere (though only running at 1gbps) so definitely no latency caused from PC-Router!! Smiley
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Quote from: Matthew
Tuning the SNR from the router is possible with some brands but I'm not sure if the ASUS is one of them.

In the current circumstances that might cause more issues / cloud the situation.  One would rather want to better understand the existing SNRM variation.  The OP has not clearly advised when / how the SNRM is changing.
A dusk to dawn depression of SNRM from 6dB is one thing, -3dB variation through the day is something quite different and potentially points to a REIN issue.
@Chris,
We rather need to see your router stats please.
If you want to get deep and dirty it might be worth downloading RouterStats (full) from the link below and configuring as per the other link and see if it works with your router.
Your internal rewiring - I trust that you have only taken terminals 2&5 to your phone extensions (no bell wire terminal 3) and that 2&5 are on the same twisted pair?  Wiring is now daisy chained - not star wired?
is the router in the master socket?
Is the phone line quiet?  Dial 17070 option 2 using a corded phone in the master socket.  If the line is noisy, report it to you phone provider.  If the provider is PlusNet, use the phone faults link below.
That TBB BQM looks grim and could indicate exchange congestion.
Kevin
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

I havent managed to log my SNR over the day since the 8817 router doesnt seem compatible with any of the tools Ive found - DSL Stats, Router Stats (including Lite) and DMT Tool. However Id say it was hovering at 3dB for quite a long time (most times I checked it) and has now increased up to 9.5dB (not sure if that is Matthew changing the profile setting or DLM working). On the 582n I was synced at 12900 down and 1120 up, with SNR at 6dB and basically no variation from morning to night.
I last night reconfigured the Thomson 582n router to be a bridging modem using Telnet and will try and plug that in this evening to see if things get better. It will be a straight swap when I change it over, I just didnt get round to it last night in case anybody working at home today gets cross with me breaking the internet even more!
Phone line is quiet when I plug a phone into it and I only have a single socket in my house which is 2 and 5, I completely ignored the bell wire as I dont have any other sockets and dont really use the home phone anyway.
        Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin:            9.5 7.0 db
Line Attenuation:    30.0 19.5 db
Data Rate:            8128 928 kbps
Max Rate:             9760 1060 kbps
POWER:                19.5 12.5 dbm
CRC:                       179 657

Frustratingly, because the modem is set to bridging I think the NTP sync isnt working, hence the times below are garbage, but this is me clearing the log and leaving for a couple of hours:
1/6/2000 10:13:7> adjtime task pause 60 seconds
1/6/2000 10:13:7> No DNS server available
1/6/2000 10:13:7> Last errorlog repeat 10 Times
1/6/2000 10:13:7> adjTimeTask fail: no server available
1/6/2000 10:13:7> adjtime task pause 1 day
1/6/2000 10:13:42>  VC header error
1/6/2000 10:13:42> VC 1483 Error ch=6 VPI:VCI=0:38
1/6/2000 10:14:7> No DNS server available
1/6/2000 10:14:7> Last errorlog repeat 10 Times
1/6/2000 10:14:7> adjTimeTask fail: no server available
1/6/2000 10:14:7> adjtime task pause 60 seconds
1/6/2000 10:14:7> No DNS server available
1/6/2000 10:14:7> Last errorlog repeat 10 Times
1/6/2000 10:14:7> adjTimeTask fail: no server available
1/6/2000 10:14:7> adjtime task pause 60 seconds
1/6/2000 10:14:7> No DNS server available
1/6/2000 10:14:7> Last errorlog repeat 10 Times
1/6/2000 10:14:7> adjTimeTask fail: no server available
1/6/2000 10:14:7> adjtime task pause 1 day
1/6/2000 10:14:25>  VC header error
1/6/2000 10:14:25> VC 1483 Error ch=6 VPI:VCI=0:38
Clearly it is the VC errors that might be interesting? Or could just be standard CRC style errors which you would expect some of.
EDIT: I manually set the time and can see the VC errors happening very randomly but seemingly every few minutes then nothing for a while, then some more - perhaps it is only when I am logged into the modem interface!! Smiley
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 13,047
Thanks: 4,337
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Chris,
Something is really odd here.  Getting the TG582n installed would be really useful as we ought to be able to get some clear stats then.  What is the firmware version please?  10.2.2.B is somewhat better than the previous versions...
Those stats look strange - the DS 8128 kbps rather looks like ADSL(1) modulation running at full speed on a 21CN service - one wonders why?  Have you tweaked any modem settings to force the modulation?  Whatever this explains the SNRM now being 9dB.
Cannot see the wood for the trees at the moment!  Crazy
Kevin
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Interesting, you're right, it is showing G.DMT as the modulation in Status page - which I assume is ADSL1.
Line State: Showtime
Modulation: G.DMT
Annex Mode: ANNEX_A
I definitely havent changed anything and having restarted the router it has gone back to normal ADSL2+. Stats below (higher sync rate than I have ever seen before as normally tops out at 13100-13200):
Line State:  Showtime
Modulation:  ADSL2 PLUS
Annex Mode:  ANNEX_A
SNR Margin:            6.0 6.6 db
Line Attenuation:    33.6 19.0 db
Data Rate:            13890 1095 kbps
Max Rate:            15084 1096 kbps
POWER:                    0.0 12.5 dbm
CRC:                              4 0
On the 582n I upgraded the firmware about 4-5 months ago as I noticed the upgrade so pretty sure it was 10.2.2.B. Will pop it back in this evening.
Highlighted
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

OK 582n now reconnected this morning and seems my telnetting was good as it was a simple swap over and everything worked. New stats below after 4 hours from the Speedtouch with Broadcom chipset. Have left router stats running so will post the graphs again once there is a bit more data to it.  Interestingly Im still getting vertical bars about every hour where the router doesnt respond (shown in blue then red after I changed the setting)
Is there anything else to pull out of it?
Downstream
Noise Margin:  6.4    dB
Bandwidth:     13155  kbps
Attenuation:   32.5   dB
Power:         0.0    dBm
Errors:
  FEC:  0
  CRC:  398
  HEC:  1605
Failures since last reset:
  LOF:  0
  LOS:  0
  LPR:  0
  ES :  281
Upstream
Noise Margin:  6.6    dB
Bandwidth:     1203   kbps
Attenuation:   17.7   dB
Power:         12.6   dBm
Errors:
  FEC:  0
  CRC:  3
  HEC:  N/A
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Ok, really got no idea what is going on. Sometimes it is stable and sometimes it is rubbish and it seems to have no correlation with time of day or anything else I can notice. Also when you compare with the ping times it doesnt match anything (other than being utterly awful).
Anybody got any ideas please?

Stats dont seem to match up with Routerstats either...
Uptime: 4 days, 14:43:36
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,203 / 13,155
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 12.19 / 42.02
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.7 / 32.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.2 / 5.9
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 9,081 / 1
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 171 / 11,402
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 209 / 65,645
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 6,125
Thanks: 592
Fixes: 231
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Looking at your usage there was a high amount of traffic being uploaded between 6pm and 11pm last night which could amount for the high ping times and poor service.
Do you have any programs set to upload in the background?
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
chrischarles
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎29-04-2014

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Hmm, perhaps my girlfriends computer was on and uploading data back to her office server. Will ask her when I get home, sorry if that is the case! Though should it really hit my ping times and packet drops that badly? Even with a my Asus AC68U router set to do some QoS priotisation.
Do you ever see the gaps in Router Stats like shown in my previous attachment? I havent found many on the foums which have such regular gaps.
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

Chris,
Need to see more granularity in the RS plots please.  Can you reconfigure as per my guide below, however, set the RX Synch axis maximum at 18,000kbps please.
The variability on the modulation is disconcerting - we need to look at that in closer detail - the red lines on the RS plot could be non-response from the router or they could be synch drops - really difficult to tell with that resolution.
@CRT,
Can you please post a radius plot?
Kevin.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
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Re: ADSL Dropping and poor stats

RADIUS:

Line test:
Profile: WBC 160K - 24M No delay (INP 0) 6dB Downstream, UC No delay (INP 0) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)
Line Stats (Up/Down)
Loop Loss:  17.6  32.5 
SNR Margin:  6.5  6.3 
Errored Seconds:  0  6 
HEC Errors:  0 
Speed:  1219  12947 
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff