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ADSL 2+ or Max?

WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Thanks: 2
Registered: 07-06-2016

ADSL 2+ or Max?

Hi all,

 

I've recently moved into a new build propertly which frustratingly, despite being a country building new homes faster than most others in typical British fashion we can't plan for **** meaning 300 new homes all bought by young families and professionals are all stuck on 2mbps connections and we appear to have missed the Infinity roll outs because we were built after the plans were drawn up and our builder like every other doesnt want to do anything and claims BT Openreach are the ones not doing anything.. Anyway I digress.

 

As a heavy internet user my 2mbps connection is proving tough, I've managed to improve my sync speed subtly things by changing to a new netgear router and filter and since moving to plusnet I've found my upstream sync has gone up slightly, possibly at the cost of my downstream which with BT was sat nicely at 2600 - 2700 kbps, vs the 2500 kbps which I'm lucky to break now.

 

Having done some checking and tweaking I was wondering what ADSL product i'm currently on, my cabinet checker reports the following

 

DSL Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date

 

Left in Jumper

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 2 -- 1 to 3 Available -- --
ADSL Max Up to 1 -- 1 to 2.5 Available -- --
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --

 

Now the speeds i'm getting and seeing seem to be in keeping with ADSL Max and when I tried to change my Netgears DSL mode to ADSL2+ it wouldnt connect, so I'm guessing I'm on ADSL Max.

 

Can someone in Plusnet confirm what type of connection I'm on and as the above table suggests I may see some improvements on ADSL2+ is this something that can be amended even as way of a trial?

 

Living with a 2mbps connection should be criminal and according to the queens speech it may soon be... but for now even a slight gain would help Sad

Line stats below

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN ADSL Link 37940 51752 0 4732 38918 00:21:57
LAN1 Link Down 83600 96824 0 59516 8663 --
LAN2 Link Down --
LAN3 100M/Full 00:22:44
LAN4 Link Down --
WLAN 300M 27855 22503 0 5009 2141 00:29:45

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2464 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.0 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 6.8 db 11.0 db
17 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,769
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Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Welcome to the forum. Smiley

I think you'll be on a WBC ADSL2+ (21CN) connection but due to the low sync speed an uncapped upstream ADSL1 (up to 8Mbps) protocol is likely to have been set.

Plusnet could change you to ADSL2+ if you'd to try it. Due to the length of your line this would fall back to ADSL2, You might find your sync speed actually reduces but clearly you have the means and skills to monitor what happens. It can easily be changed back if necessary.

Hopefully a staff member will see this during the day and advise.

David
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: 01-01-2012

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

I'm just looking into this for you.

[edit]

I can see that you're currently on ADSL1 over 21CN.

As spraxyt has said we can look at moving you onto ADSL2 but we can't guarantee things will improve.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
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Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Hi Matthew,

 

Can we try it please? I fully accept that this could go either way due to the distance of the line but if we can at least try it?

Even a slight increase in sync rate would represent a big percentage of improvement until the day comes that we finally get fibre Sad

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 5,623
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Registered: 01-01-2012

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

I've placed the order for you and it should complete tomorrow.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
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Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Well I get a better upstream of about 670-700kbps but my downstream seems to be struggling.

 

Assuming there is nothing else we could try, can I kindly be put back on my former setting? 

 

Sad

Community Veteran
Posts: 5,170
Thanks: 478
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Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Can you post the stats again? Some exchange equipment doesn't automatically switch from ADSL2+ to ADSL2, in which case may be able to improve things slightly by setting your modem to ADSL2.

Sometimes it's also useful to consider the long term stability, ADSL1 might get slightly more bandwidth than ADSL2 both on 6 dB target SNR margins, but ADSL2 might be more stable and able to operate at a 3 dB target SNR margin, giving more bandwidth than ADSL1 with a 6 dB target SNR margin.

WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Thanks: 2
Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Sure, stats below Smiley

System Up Time 22:42:37

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN ADSL Link 3013960 4877666 0 2897 42733 22:41:18
LAN1 Link Down 4931118 3308502 0 43687 3480 --
LAN2 Link Down --
LAN3 100M/Full 22:42:10
LAN4 Link Down --
WLAN 300M 5006802 3157687 0 44429 3814 22:42:36


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2123 kbps 664 kbps
Line Attenuation 62.5 db 39.4 db
Noise Margin 6.4 db 5.9 db

 

It feels like since moving onto this new connection streaming has become more laboured, the through puts OK when downloading but ive been struggling to hold skype voice calls etc d

 ow

I remember when I was with BT I tended to get slightly higher downstream sync rates, sometimes around the 2800-2900 range and my upload speed was always 475 or something, I've never seen sync rates that high for downstream on PlusNet but the upstreams always been higher than I ever saw on BT.. :S Any idea how that could be happening?

 

I'm sure there is a sweet spot to be found somewhere Smiley

Community Veteran
Posts: 5,170
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Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

It's not clear from those stats if it's using ADSL2+ or ADSL2, you could try setting the Netgear to ADSL2 anyway and seeing if it makes any improvement.

I think Plusnet switching it to ADSL2+ starts a new 10 day training period, so the DLM might be more active and making adjustments, but the DLM may be more interested in switching interleaving off, rather than trying a 3 dB target SNR margin which would give you a little more bandwidth.

Speed differences between BT and Plusnet could have been due to different parameters such as the target SNR margin, interleaving on or off, or BT might have been using ADSL2/2+, I don't think they have the same policy of putting long lines on ADSL1 as Plusnet do. Upstream speed can either be capped at 448k or uncapped to give whatever your line is capable of.

WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Thanks: 2
Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Hi, thanks ejs you've been really helpful Smiley

 

I've just set to ADSL2 (not ADSL2+) on the netgear and i've gotten the following stats.

 System Up Time 23:56:01

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN ADSL Link 5756 6061 0 5065 41812 00:02:33
LAN1 Link Down 5636268 3798796 0 20130017 1570552 --
LAN2 Link Down --
LAN3 100M/Full 00:03:29
LAN4 Link Down --
WLAN 300M 5532705 3513923 0 46835 3982 23:56:00

 

 

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2442 kbps 651 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.0 db 39.4 db
Noise Margin 6.3 db 6.0 db

 

I've resumed a download I was doing (new Nvidia drivers) and its carried on really nicely where before it was very sluggish, a quick youtube check and that seemed smoother too but I guess it may take some time to get a proper feel for whether this has made any actual difference.

 

You've mentioned a 3 dB target SNR, is this something plusnet set or the DLM or is it interleaving that may be the next worth while step to see if things get any better.. or worse?

Community Veteran
Posts: 5,170
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Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

The DLM can automatically change the target SNR margin and switch interleaving on and off, Plusnet can also control interleaving and change the target SNR margin manually if necessary.

The stats from the Netgear aren't very detailed and don't show interleaving status, but on such a long line, it was probably on before and will likely still be on now. Plusnet can retrieve some details on your line to show the interleaving status and performance in terms of the error rate.

It usually takes at least a few days of good performance before the DLM will make positive changes such as setting a lower target SNR margin. It may be a case of wait and see how it goes, and maybe ask Plusnet to check if interleaving is on or off.

WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
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Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Thanks, I will leave things for a while then, it definitely seems more settled at the moment.

WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Thanks: 2
Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

Holy cow the sync speeds just shy of 3mbps!!

Will post the stats tomorrow but it looks like noise margins have dropped significantly, result Smiley
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,665
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Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

For a line of 61db attenuation, it's looking pretty good at the speeds you're getting now!

 

  Upstream DSL Link Information Downstream DSL Link Information
Loop Loss: 39.3 61.0
SNR Margin: 5.0 3.3
Errored Seconds: 8 0
HEC Errors: 11  
Cell Count: 2248737 22000088
Speed: 659 2990

Maximum Stable Rate (KBPS):

2272 Fault Threshold Rate (KBPS): 1817
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds): 86348 Mean Time Between Errors Upstream (Seconds): 6642
Indicative Line Quality: G Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds): 568

 

Profile Info: WBC 160K - 24M Low delay (INP 0) 3dB Downstream, UC Medium delay (INP 2) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
WavingCat
Dabbler
Posts: 10
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Registered: 07-06-2016

Re: ADSL 2+ or Max?

System Up Time 3 days 02:01:24
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN ADSL Link 1734543 2699874 0 1560 40307 1 day 00:48:06
LAN1 Link Down 11659511 8335073 0 25898 7323 --
LAN2 Link Down --
LAN3 100M/Full 1 day 05:22:26
LAN4 Link Down --
WLAN 300M 10759954 6925152 0 6242 2655 3 days 02:01:23

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2991 kbps 659 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.0 db 39.3 db
Noise Margin 2.8 db 4.9 db

 

.Well the lines stayed steady, download/speed tests show I'm still struggling to get more than 210 kB/s down (in fact it wont budge past 210 at all) so I am guessing the IP profile hasnt caught up yet.