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A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi,
Are there any tweaks I can do to extract a few Kb extra out of this ADSL2 connection. I've put the TG582n into bridge mode. The rather desperate logic being that if the device is only operating as a modem it's got less to do.
[tt]Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 22:41:05
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 440 / 2,962
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 4.36 / 21.05
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.7 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 35.8 / 61.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.6 / 6.7
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 26 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3,863 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 980 / 392,451
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 42 / 947
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 47 / 6,102[/tt]
Terranova667 mentioned the possibility of going down to plain old ADSL to get something more stable.
WWWombat also mentioned ADSL2+ from the cabinet might be an experimental option.
We are 1.9Km LoS to the cabinet and it's an additional 0.9Km LoS to the exchange.
Unfortunately, I've not heard anything from Plusnet recently on this.
The back story to how we ended up with this ADSL2 connection can be found here: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/board,3.0.html
117 REPLIES
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 13,322
Thanks: 223
Fixes: 65
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi there Zixus,
I can see from our reply to ticket 93479907 that the move onto ADSL only completed yesterday.
We just need to give the training period it's best chance to complete before making a judgement on performance.
Let us know if things don't change after the first 10 days please.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi Adam,
We've been on ADSL2 for a bit longer than that. The revert order were placed after the 4th engineer took us off of FTTC and moved us back to our old ADSL port. I think that was on 27 Oct. Thus I think we've either been through the 10 day training cycle or near the end. These are the ADSL2 line stats from 2nd Nov:
[tt]Link Information
Uptime:  1 day, 12:05:14
DSL Type:  ITU-T G.992.3
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:  440 / 2,393
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]:  282.86 / 4.53
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:  12.7 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:  35.9 / 62.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:  14.7 / 8.1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote):  TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote):  BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):  8 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):  1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):  0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):  -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):  365 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):  253 / 49,838
CRC Errors (Up/Down):  10 / 554
HEC Errors (Up/Down):  15 / 2,39[/tt]
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 13,322
Thanks: 223
Fixes: 65
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi there,
I hear what you're saying however the training period still began yesterday as the engineering work to connect you to an ADSL port (rather than fibre) was completed then.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

OK - thanks, we'll see how it goes.
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

I was wondering if extensions affect the performance of the ADSL2 connection. In the house we've moved into it, it looks like the drop cable comes up into a BT66 (?), a single cable then goes back out in the same direction and is wrapped around the outside of the house until it gets to the BT Openreach master socket. To the right of the BT66 it looks like two extension wires come out. We don't use the extensions.
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

It looks like the line speed is bouncing around, is this normal during the 'training' period?
Plusnet line speed estimate:
[tt]Estimated line speed:
10Mb (Download speed could vary depending on line conditions. Estimates are the maximum speeds that your phone line can support. These speeds are dependent on the package you choose.) - Checked on 2014-10-21 10:46:24
Current line speed:
2.1 Mb[/tt]
Earlier today we were getting 2.6 Mbps. Now it's dropped:
[tt] Download speed achieved during the test was - 2.02 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.8 Mbps-2 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 2.19 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.32Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.45 Mbps[/tt]
The number of error seconds looks high considering the connection has only been up for 7 hours?
[tt]Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 7:13:47
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 2,484
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 8.38 / 57.05
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 35.7 / 62.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 2.1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 44 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 5 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 6,908 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 425,254
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 30 / 119
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 24 / 750[/tt]
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

I think the training period is still ongoing. However, I don't understand why the SNRM has dropped from 6 to 2db (and appears to have remained at that level). The no. of FECs appears rather high.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,648
Thanks: 641
Fixes: 162
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Although the SNR margin is at 2db, the graph is showing it as varying very little so I wouldn't be too concerned, it's probably that the DLM has moved you to a 3db margin as part of the training period. FEC errors are to be expected on a line that has interleaving turned on. I've just tried to line test but received an error so I've not been able to verify the above yet.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi Chris,
Thanks for putting my mind at rest. If there is anything I need to do regarding FEC please let me know. I will keep DSLstats running against the TG582n until the training period is over.
Cheers.
dvvrue95
Grafter
Posts: 134
Registered: 17-08-2007

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi Zixus,
Wink sorry to jump into this message thread but I was intrigued to see
Zixus--" The revert order were placed after the 4th engineer took us off of FTTC and moved us back to our old ADSL port."
Does this mean you were on ADSL then  went to FTTC but then went back to ADSL?
The only reason for querying this is I am on a long ADSL (approx 7km) line and FTTC is due in the area early 2015 but
my guesstimated line speed on FTTC is only likely to be around 5M compared with my ADSL 2M, so its a finely balanced
decision to consider FTTC.
Did you have your FTTC -->ADSL revert because of speed issues or was it other technical problems and how easy was it
to get PN to chnge things for you?  Roll eyes
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi dvvrue95,
Yes, we had ADSL, then we went to FTTC and now we are back with ADSL.
If you find yourself in a similar situation I can recommend a short burst of this: [ url]
[/ url] (to keep the spirits up).
Details below:
We moved house (we were existing ADSL Plusnet customers) and ordered FTTC for the new location (based on the 10-16Mb estimated speed). The new location had a telephone line that had been disconnected. For some reason this took two visits to resolve. It then transpired that ADSL had been provisioned and not FTTC. Thus we started using the ADSL2 connection whilst waiting on the next engineering visit. As it was only 2Mb, we were rather keen to get on to FTTC.
On the third visit the FTTC service was connected and we were told that the bandwidth was so low because Plusnet had not put us on the right package. This turned out to be incorrect and I believe Plusnet had set their side up correctly. FTTC jumped between 0.6 - 2.6 and appeared to be rather unstable.
On the 4th visit the BTO engineer said we should never have been offered FTTC as he could not get it to sync. I believe the BT engineer then put us back onto the port that we had been using for ADSL. Plusnet pushed through an order to revert us back to ADSL, which is why we're now in the training period and achieving a lowly 2Mb (but it appears to be stable).
I'm still not clear why FTTC can be worse than ADSL2, when in theory the distance over copper is significantly reduced.
I hope this answers your question.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,911
Thanks: 3,278
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Quote from: Zixus
We are 1.9Km LoS to the cabinet and it's an additional 0.9Km LoS to the exchange.

Are you certain about this?  The reported line attenuation suggest a line length more like 4.5km so the circuit must go all over the place OR the router is not reporting (calculating) the attenuation correctly.  The attained synch rate is somewhat higher than that which would be expected on this line @6dB SNRM - viz 2112kbps.  The lower SNRM will deliver more synch (though it could be less stable) but maybe not as much as the difference.
The reported attenuation of your line puts you into that zone where ADSL / ADSL2 / ADSL2+ will all deliver the same synch rate.   Sad
Can you check the estimated line length here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php - please?
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

Hi Townman,
I used the kitz link to get this:
Exchange: Thatcham BT Code: THT
Location: Park Lane, RG18 3GB
Distance:- Direct: 2.72 km
(appx)* By Road: 3.3 km
Status
ADSL enabled: June 30, 2001
DSL Max enabled: March 31, 2006
21CN WBC (Broadband) Enabled
21CN due : (PSTN) info N/A
FTTC Available in some areas
One of the BTO engineers told us where the FTTC cabinet is located and when I plotted that distance it came up as 1.9Km and 0.9Km from the cabinet to the Exchange.
We did port our number, I don't suppose it's going via our old house  Wink
Zixus
Grafter
Posts: 69
Registered: 02-09-2014

Re: A rather sad ADSL2 connection...

I thought this might be of interest. It shows how the SNRM has changed over the last 24 hours. I'm guessing this is related to network utilisation?