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21CN no speed increase - investigation result

ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

21CN no speed increase - investigation result

Looks like the faults team have come up with a possible reason for why I've seen no speed increases since joining 21CN. It's quite interesting:
"Thanks for the update, further tests are still showing errors which though your SNR has reduced from 15 its more than likely whats stopping your sync rate from going any higher, unfortunately this rate is still way above your BT assigned fault threshold rate so they wont accept a fault on this however it may be worth trying a few tweaks at your side such as changing the filter, trying alternate hardware if you have access to borrow some etc
Should you require any further testing please let us know.
Kind regards"

Since I've already tried alternating hardware at my end I can only assume that there's nothing I can do to remove these errors since there's not enough of them to be classed as a 'fault' that BT will look at.
Does this mean that ADSL2+ is more twitchy with regard to errors? If so should BT be looking to change their definition of 'acceptable' errors in preparation for the new technology?
I guess I'll just have to live with the 3.2MBits I'm currently getting until something happens to the local infrastucture by default Sad
19 REPLIES
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

Quote
Does this mean that ADSL2+ is more twitchy with regard to errors? If so should BT be looking to change their definition of 'acceptable' errors in preparation for the new technology?

Quite possibly!  We've been talking with BT about that and I know a number of other ISPs have also been doing so.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

take it your talking about errored seconds and super frame errors ect. if so i belive this what sends my line into banded mode as i never get any drops in connection.
on fastpath my 50ddb atten line seems to be ok with around 250 ES in 24hours anything over that and the DLM must start to get worried.
20cn dlm use to allow my ES on faspath to sumtimes clock up a 1000 ES in 24 hours during a thunderstorm and not batter an eye lid.
250es or 1000es it dosent seem to degrade my traffic or exprince of the web at all
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

Quote from: Jameseh
Quote
Does this mean that ADSL2+ is more twitchy with regard to errors? If so should BT be looking to change their definition of 'acceptable' errors in preparation for the new technology?

Quite possibly!  We've been talking with BT about that and I know a number of other ISPs have also been doing so.

You could use me as a test case to prove your point. Get BT to completely clear up my line in the interests of 'science' and then compare the results  Cheesy
grahamt
Rising Star
Posts: 552
Thanks: 10
Registered: 05-04-2008

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

I'd also volunteer for that! From another thread it sounds like I've got a similar profile to ComplexP.
It ain't gonna happen, though, is it?
Graham
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Thanks: 15
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

If this change to DLM also applies to MaxDSL please consider me as a possible guinea pig to get my SNR down from 15 back to 9 again, would give me another 1Mb speed back.
SW.
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

We can all dream guys.
I guess we'll all just have to wait for the government to come good on its promise to provide fiber optics to local nodes by 2012 or whatever they're gassing about these days. It's pledged that every home should have at least 2MBits by then.
Considering that South Korea has it's sights set on 1000MBit connections by 2012 our infrastructure seems woefully inadequate for the task.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

@ complex. you will find in most the places that have huge bandwidth over fibre given to them at affodable prices are countrys that have very little rules on what can be strung on telegraph poles. if it was allowed in this country am sure even bt would have had the country fibered up by now but the fact is they have to go under ground which takes time and alot of money. esp for FTTH
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,933
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

According to my router logs, I have mega high CRC and FEC errors, that the DLM appears not to care about.  According to the DMT tool however the errors are nowhere near as high.  Whats the right one??  I think this ADSL2+ DLM has multiple personality disorder........
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

Quote from: ASBO
@ complex. you will find in most the places that have huge bandwidth over fibre given to them at affodable prices are countrys that have very little rules on what can be strung on telegraph poles. if it was allowed in this country am sure even bt would have had the country fibered up by now but the fact is they have to go under ground which takes time and alot of money. esp for FTTH

I appreciate the reasons but it doesn't change the situation. If our self imposed (or EU?) rules mean we need to spend 10 times as much as other countries then I guess we're screwed for the short term yes?
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

@penfold.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,80277.msg653375.html#msg653375
Theres a bug on that router.
Ive bein having a tinker with one this wkend and when it happens its straight after a resync. i did force a g.992.1 sync and it didnt happen.
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

I have the 585 router and I see exactly the same bug regarding error reporting.

Uptime: 4 days, 18:21:35
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 3,335
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB] 12.94 / 254.67
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 13.0 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.0 / 47.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 9.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,264 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,264 / 1,545
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 798  
ASBO - Do you think those erroneous errors could be finding their way back to the exchange? I ask because I'm still seeing no speed increase on ADSL2 and can't figure out why. If the exchange thinks anyone with a 585 is actually experiencing billions of errors it could account for the seemingly locked speeds, right?
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

no i think its just the routers reporting on the actual firmware thats messed up. i only had the thomson ive got on my line for a few hours but i run fastpath and i can assure you if the DLM saw error rates like that it would run for the hills but it didnt on my line.
i reckon on my line running my trusty dg834 v4 if the DLM sees over 500 heading towards a 1000 ES an CRC in a 24 hour period it starts messing about with bands and snr changes. i currently run at a average of 250 ES an CRC aday but when a thunderstorm hits it can soon clock the ES up
@complex or penfold. if you find your selfs up at midnite over the next few days, could you check what your ping times are like on 21cn. i want to see if this problem http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,80166.0.html is just on the chesterfield exchange or not.
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

I'll try to check my ping times if I find myself awake then. What is the command for ping reports please and which site should I ping? It's been a long time since I looked at this stuff.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: 21CN no speed increase - investigation result

run a "ping -t bbc.co.uk" and "ctrl+c to stop it. cheers.
how long have you bein on the trial 21cn. it taken my fastpath line since the spring to find its self happy on a 12db noise margin where it was happy on 20cn. i was stuck on a banded profile for months.
in your very first reply there is abit about PN replying to a ticket regarding the high errors.
Quote
Thanks for the update, further tests are still showing errors which though your SNR has reduced from 15 its more than likely whats stopping your sync rate from going any higher, unfortunately this rate is still way above your BT assigned fault threshold rate so they wont accept a fault on this however it may be worth trying a few tweaks at your side such as changing the filter, trying alternate hardware if you have access to borrow some etc

was this what they could see on the stats they can pull up on your line or had you given them the error rates the thomson router was reporting