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0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

xpcomputers
Grafter
Posts: 460
Registered: 13-04-2007

0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Hi Guys,
I have read that the 0845 number can't be transferred for the trial. That's fair enough...
However, what are the longer term plans regarding these numbers? Will I be able to keep that number eventually when we are all moved to Gradwell, or will I definitely be losing it... and it is just a matter of time?
Will there be an option to keep it and stay on PlusNet's current system, or will that be terminated eventually. Presumably even after the trial, there will be a season (however long or short) where both services are still running concurrently, to allow the average Joe/Joline to switch over in their own time.
Just wanted to decide a way forwards regarding the trial and into the future, so that I can make informed choices now about how and when I start using the new service, what number I will choose from them, and how (if necessary) I go about notifying everyone about the number change.
The other question which is number related is to do with incoming calls to Gradwell geographic numbers. (I had hi-jacked someone else's thread for this initially, but decided it should be hived off to save confusion. I will forward people here to keep that original thread on topic).
Can you just call xxxxxx locally, or do you need the area code too (for example 01992 xxxxxx). There have been conflicting reports... which might suggest it is exchange specific. Please can people report here their findings on this, so that I get a over-view. This might will affect which geographic number I choose to pick! (If anyone has experience particularly in the 01992 local code, I would be very pleased to hear from you!)
Thanks for all the help.
Mike
14 REPLIES
xpcomputers
Grafter
Posts: 460
Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

From the other thread:
Quote from: jelv
Could it be that if you have a geographic number Gradwell assumes the same STD if it is missing?

Jelv, I wonder if I was talking at crossed purposes in the other thread. Are we all talking about incoming calls to our geographic number?
(or are you talking about dialling out to local numbers from voip account? I think out can be set in your phone's own "dialling rules settings" to add the code on for you when you dial a 6 digit number, so it is like dialling OUT from your landline. Of course as you say, Gradwell might add this on for you)
I was talking about incoming calls... eg someone local to me (same local dialling code) dials xxxxxx will they get me, or will they need to dial 01992 xxxxxx
Gradwell obviously know which area code we have chosen, like you say, but does my local exchange know to route the call to Gradwell (presumably effectively nationally to Gradwell's base/bases) and then on to me via VOIP, when just the xxxxxx bit is dialled locally without the area code.
There have been mixed reports of success and failure on this. The success and failure reports might actually be related to one person talking about dialling OUT from VOIP and the other talking about receiving IN to VOIP on the geographic number.
If we can get an overall picture of what is happening, that'd be great.
itsme
Grafter
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1
Registered: 07-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

VOIP allocated Geographical numbers can be treated as normal geographical numbers. BT will do the routing if a normal pstn phone is used to dial the VOIP number. So if dialling out from a normal landline in the same STD area you only need to dail the last 6 digits. When using VOIP phone the full number has to be dialled.
Ianwild
Grafter
Posts: 3,835
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

It works for me from home - I can dial my Voip PSTN number without the STD.
Ian
Ianwild
Grafter
Posts: 3,835
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Quote from: xpcomputers
However, what are the longer term plans regarding these numbers? Will I be able to keep that number eventually when we are all moved to Gradwell, or will I definitely be losing it... and it is just a matter of time?

Fair question, for which the answer is not very simple.
Some people will be able to keep their 0845 numbers as they can be ported to Gradwell (Which will take months, but is being started soon). Other numbers were allocated before we got our ranges, and can't be ported. We are still deciding what to do with these, but for the time being we don't know what the outcome will be. It may be that we end up forwarding numbers from Opal to Gradwell, but I can't promise that will be possible, or that we wouldn't need to pass on the cost of doing that in some way.
In short, it would be much better (and really helpful for us) if you could pick a new number on the new system. If you can't though, we are looking to find a solution that will involve minimal disruption for customers.
Ian
itsme
Grafter
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1
Registered: 07-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

@xpcomputers
If you are staying with PN/Gladwell I suggest that you select a new geographical number. Especially if you are going to circulate this to friends as most mobile and landline callings price plans include free geographical calls.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 2,484
Thanks: 190
Fixes: 5
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Ian, is there anyway someone can find out if there number is in the range that could be ported across or not?
Phil
xpcomputers
Grafter
Posts: 460
Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Glad to hear your replies.
I do still wonder if it works for EVERY exchange though, as I believe my local area code is used at two (or more) different physical exchanges. Somewhere along the way in the routing they seem to get lost, so people who use VoIP in this area often need to dial the full code.
However, normal landlines work across the two exchanges without the area code seamlessly, so it is a VoIP-type problem (or any other national provider of geographic numbers).
This isn't something I've tried with Gradwell, just something I've experienced with other users. Don't know the VoIP providers in question, but some local businesses I've tried to use in this area have "dial full area code first" written under their phone numbers in their adverts... (I'm guessing they use a VoIP service, but wouldn't know which one). I have tried their numbers without the code as a test (a few years ago admittedly), and it gave number unobtainable.
From questions I asked around the time (2+ years ago), it seemed that this was a common routing problem in area codes where there were multiple exchanges... but it is all vague in my head now!!!
I think it was something like: 3xxxxx & 5xxxxx go to one exchange, 4xxxxx & 7xxxxx go the other, and national-type-local numbers are 6xxxxx which route from "out of area" are fine, but need the code inside area, as the routing can't be fixed. Seamed a lame excuse at the time... but I know there were many exchanges with a similar problem at the time.
Basically, it would be helpful to know if 01992 xxxxxx will work  locally without the code as that makes picking a number easier. If not, I might prefer a London number, say, which would not have this problem (still classed as local for call rate purposes from here, as we boarder onto 020Cool.
I've just taken a free Enta-Group VoIP account with a 01992 Geographic number to try out, as that might help me see if the routing has been sorted in the intervening years.
I would love to hear from anyone who says it doesn't work for them without the code... even just so I know I am not going mad! (My memory isn't what it used to be... and 2 years goes in a flash... but I remember so little!).
IAN, what about the transfer strategy to Gradwell. Obviously dates themselves will be fluid, as you need to get it stable before you commit to a changeover. But when you finally give the go ahead... how quick do you envisage the change-over time being? Or will it be an immediate "switch old OFF and replacement ON in an instant" type move?
I'm just trying to decide about going on the trial now, or waiting for the mass exodus migration! I need to make a top up, so now might be a good time, but I want to resolve the 0845 and 01992 incoming number questions before I jump and decide a new number.
I don't particularly want an 0845 number actually, but it obviously definitely works currently... whereas the 01992 number might get confusing if it doesn't work properly! (Hence considering an 0208 number). I am actually very happy to shift to a local number, but only want to have to tell everyone the change once, so want to get it right first time!!!
Did anyone see if the new non-geographic (but proper local-rate) 0345 numbers were available... as they are still included calls in most people's free call allowances and would be the other option if the 01992 still doesn't work (purely hypothetical).
Also, does anyone know if I can try a 01992 on Gradwell in the beta... keep my 0845 for now... and if it works, then tell everyone and switch... and if it is a pain, then change the Gradwell number for free to a 0208 number (before announcing it)? I hope all these questions make sense.
Thanks
itsme
Grafter
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1
Registered: 07-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

You can add in the mix cable users (VirginMedia). Do cable companies resolve just the local part of the number?
Local area code are used by multiple exchanges. My STD code is used by at least 7 exchanges. It's the first digit of the local number that's normally used for the local exchange routing.
Ianwild
Grafter
Posts: 3,835
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Quote from: pjmarsh
Ian, is there anyway someone can find out if there number is in the range that could be ported across or not?
Phil

Yes... I don't have the details to hand, but there are two different ranges and we will be able to differentiate them when we start discussing this with customers.
Ian
vof
Grafter
Posts: 43
Registered: 04-08-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

I've come to this thread late so apologies if any of this is not new or helpful.
I find the reference to the allocated numbers as PSTN numbers confusing. They are geographic but surely not switched conventionally through the public network?
Because your outgoing calls are not switched conventionally, i.e. starting at your local exchange, they must have the appropriate code to be unambiguous. However, you don't necessarily need to dial the code for local calls. My Sipura SPA-1001 (and I think all SPA-xxxx devices and Linksys PAP2 which are derived from the Sipura products) support Dial Plans which are a simple set of instructions to manage the dial strings before they are actioned.
My simple dial plan string is
(*xx|<:01308>[48]xxxxxS0|1xx|0xxxxxxxxx.|00xxxxxx.)
which means, among other things, allow asterisk followed by two digits, or if the dialled string has six digits and starts with 4 or 8, insert the 01308 code and send immediately (because it is local to the Bridport exchange - all Bridport numbers start with 4 or 8 ), or allow three digits starting with 1, or ....
I hacked this string without a full understanding of the syntax and semantics of dial plans but it works for me.
There are a number of helpful pages on creating dial plans out there including this one:
http://www.netphonedirectory.com/pap2_dialplan.htm
RichSmol
Grafter
Posts: 709
Registered: 29-10-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Quote from: xpcomputers

IAN, what about the transfer strategy to Gradwell. Obviously dates themselves will be fluid, as you need to get it stable before you commit to a changeover. But when you finally give the go ahead... how quick do you envisage the change-over time being? Or will it be an immediate "switch old OFF and replacement ON in an instant" type move?

I've been reviewing the roadmap for VoIP - to be honest theres a whole load of development work scheduled for the next 6 months in other major projects but its more than likely that we'll move out of the trial and into 'full product' status somewhere around the later part of the next 6 months. At which point we'll run both services for a couple of months to allow for changeover and porting of numbers (if possible). Its probably more ideal to create an alias for the 0845 number on the Gradwell platform and point all incoming calls to that number to your geographic number. Not 100% sure how that would work in presenting your CLI on outbound calls though..
Quote from: xpcomputers

I don't particularly want an 0845 number actually, but it obviously definitely works currently... whereas the 01992 number might get confusing if it doesn't work properly! (Hence considering an 0208 number). I am actually very happy to shift to a local number, but only want to have to tell everyone the change once, so want to get it right first time!!!

Furthermore, any assigned geographic number on the trial platform will more than likely stay with you now. We will be initiating a claimback policy at some point to avoid customers claiming a decent number then simply not using the service.
Quote from: xpcomputers

Also, does anyone know if I can try a 01992 on Gradwell in the beta... keep my 0845 for now... and if it works, then tell everyone and switch... and if it is a pain, then change the Gradwell number for free to a 0208 number (before announcing it)? I hope all these questions make sense.

You can change this for free during the trial and we will take this on a per-case basis. It may be that once we move to a full product we will allow this to be free for the first 2 changes then apply an admin fee on the third change.
If you wish to change your assigned geo number please go to http://trials.plus.net > VoIP Beta trial > Generic query section.
xpcomputers
Grafter
Posts: 460
Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Thanks for the reply Rich.
Being able to try a local number and then change it if it doesn't work properly is exactly my ideal scenario.
I will sign up for the trial and try to find some time to configure my Billion VOIP router and see how I find the service.
Regarding the aliasing. Would it be possible to temporarily assign the 0845 to redirect via VOIP, eg it never leaves the internet routing, once it arrives, but no other charges per call are accrued?
What I mean is, could I set my PlusTalk Voip account, to redirect to my Gradwell PlusTalk account when receiving incoming calls. This would enable me to just run one VOIP service during the trials, without having to manage both of them. Presumably there is a peering agreement for free calls between Gradwell PlusTalk and old PlusTalk accounts. It would just need to be a place to set the redirect in the VOIP server, or on the portal.
Obviously this solution wouldn't work for future, when the old PlusTalk servers are decommissioned... but until then it could be useful.
Anyone able to comment on feasibility?
This would basically allow my 0845 to ring my Gradwell Plustalk account in the trial period, for free. You'd still get the revenue from the incoming 0845 calls, so all would be happy.
Thanks for your help.
Mike
RichSmol
Grafter
Posts: 709
Registered: 29-10-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

This is the type of solution we want to develop. It will take some time for our networks team to work with Gradwell's engineers to place re-directs on all the 0845 numbers and update the routing tables. Its a dirty solution to be honest but its definately not something we can put in place tomorrow for a single user at this time.
Its on my radar though. Its a shame that our existing broadband phone accounts cant forward calls otherwise you'd be fine for a short term fix. You can apply a forward on your Trial account to your 0845 number on your PlusNet Broadband Phone account but there will be a cost involved as you've stated.
Our peering agreement with Gradwell seems to be broken at the moment and as this is a trial a resource to apply the fix is hard to come by, its on the to-do list though and i'll publish further information with regards to porting, redirects or aliases after Christmas.
xpcomputers
Grafter
Posts: 460
Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: 0845 PlusNet number... and beyond!

Rich,
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate what you are saying about this being only a trial.
I will find the time to try it out at my end, and then report back, as I least I have enough info now to make an informed choice about the future.... I just need some more time at my end! (I don't suppose you have any spare in a cupboard at PlusNet towers somewhereHuh)
Thanks again
Mike