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Wiring problems

N/A

Wiring problems

At work so can't check the wiring as yet but ...

Yes, the Argos extension is connected to the phone side of the filter ... and that's how I get sync ... I've given in trying to figure out why.

It's all working fine at the moment with the set-up I described:

Hardwire master to sideways extension.
Sideways extension with filter plugged in.
10m Modem cable into ADSL side of filter.
Argos extension to phone side of filter.
Main phone into Argos extension at socket side.

Good eh! Smiley
9 REPLIES
N/A

Wiring problems

I'm new to ADSL and am having all sorts of problems getting the modem to sync. I have had a chat with the lads at plusnet who are unable to give me advice on wiring so I'm hoping that someone here can help.

My problem is that I can only get sync when my modem is plugged into the master box via a filter ... any other configuration I try and I simply get nothing at all.

Bizarrely I have tried plugging directly into the master box using an adaptor to turn the RJ11 on the end of the modem cable into a BT431A for the telephone socket but nothing. Only when I use the filters provided can I get any level of sucess.

By way of further information, and bear with me on this as I'll go on for a bit:

I have something of an unusual set-up at home (courtesy of previous owners). Master socket goes into upstairs bedroom. There is a hardwired extension socket that runs down the back of the house into the dining room (below the master socket bedroom).

I then have an 'Argos' extension socket from master socket to bedroom 2 for my dial-up modem (extension 1)

I then have an 'Argos' extension from hardwired extension (in dining room) to living room for Sky Digital and Main Telephone (extension 2)

My setup is therefore:

Master Socket>Extension 1>Dial-Up Modem
Hardwired Extension>Extension 2>Double adapter>Sky TV & Main Phone

I have shifted my comp (temporarily) into the master socket room and connected the modem to the master socket with the filter, with both Argos extensions unplugged completely. That's the setup I have to use to get sync.

It is therefore:

Master Socket>Filter>ADSL = Sync
Hardwire>Empty

I can also get sync with:

Master Socket>Filter> ADSL & Extension 1>Main phone in extension 1

Should I plug anything at all into the hardwired extension in the dining room, with or without a filter the connection goes.

What I hoped to do was:

Master Socket>Extension 1>Filter>ASL & Phone
Hardwire>Extension 2>Filter>Sky TV

From the tutorial I have read I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work but it simply doesn't, not a thing.

I have also tried:

Master>Extension 1>Filter>ADSL only
Hardwire>Empty

So nothing at all other than the ADSL - but that doesn't work either.

At the moment the only way round my problem that I can see is to get a 10M RJ11 to RJ11 cable, run it under three carpets so that I can use this configuration:

Master>Filter>ADSL (on long lead to Bedroom 2)>Extension 1>Phone
Hardwire>Empty

And I'll just have to only plug Sky in when I need it.

Can anyone offer any insight or advice on my wiring problems, particularly why I can't get sync when simply going RJ11 from modem to adapter for BT431A to master.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeelppppp
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Re: Wiring problems

Quote

What I hoped to do was:

Master Socket>Extension 1>Filter>ASL & Phone
Hardwire>Extension 2>Filter>Sky TV

From the tutorial I have read I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work but it simply doesn't, not a thing.


Have you got any other phones connected, which are not filtered?
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Wiring problems

Hmm... where to start Wink

You did not say what ADSL hardware you are using?

Here are 3 useful links:

ADSL: Wiring and Filters which you may have seen already but posted in case you had not and
UK telephone wiring and Telephones UK - Wiring info which should allow you to check the hardwired extension to make sure it is wired correctly.

When you say an 'argos' extension / extension socket, which one of these do you mean (state the item code).

Some DIY extensions are not very good for ADSL, especially if you already have a low SNR or line attenuation meaning the signal strength is very low. What speed ADSL do you have and was that the fastest you could get?

Ok, we need to get things working properly on the master socket first:

Take your 56K dialup modem cable and use it to connect your ADSL modem to your master socket without the ADSL filter, instead of it's existing one + adapter. Make sure there is nothng else connected and extensions 1 & 2 are disconnected. If that fails, try the test socket behind the lower user removable plate on the master socket.

If you're saying no sync occurs when something is plugged into the hardwired extension then possible that is wired wrong so check the diagram links above.

I also suspect the 2 argos extensions you have are not compatible with ADSL or the signal strengt you have is being degraded too much when they are connected.
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Wiring problems

Thanks for the info.

I have a PCI Modem supplied by the good folks of PlusNet with a connection of 512. Regrettably I am about 4-5miles from the nearest exhange so for the time being 512 is as good as it gets for me.

I have popper down to B&Q and bought a High Speed Modem Cable with "Twisted Wire technology suitable for speeds up to 100Mbps" .. or so it says. It is RJ 11 to BT so I am just about to try that direct into the master socket.

I had suspected that the extension cables may be shite so I have bought another one. The only problem is that there appears to be very little information regarding what cable are /aren't good for ADSL. I have gone for "TEL10" cable if that means anything to you (it doesn't to me!!)

I had read the tutorials thanks, they convinced me that I was doing everything right, which only added to the frustration!!

Thanks for doing this, I'm just off to test the high speed modem cable and will then pop back to let you know what, if anything happened.

Oh, I also invested in a new filter designed for ADSL lines up to 5.5km from the exchange. Based on what we've said about it's more likely to be the extension cable than the filter that's the problem ... so I'll keep that in its packet until all else fails!
N/A

Re: Wiring problems

Quote
Quote

What I hoped to do was:

Master Socket>Extension 1>Filter>ASL & Phone
Hardwire>Extension 2>Filter>Sky TV

From the tutorial I have read I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work but it simply doesn't, not a thing.


Have you got any other phones connected, which are not filtered?


No mate, none at all. I only have one phone connection and two cordless that run off that.
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Oh b'gger ...

Promise not to mock me lads, but I think I've finally had the penny drop.

Using a brand new high speed cable, with nothing else plugged in at all ... I still couldn't get sync unless I put a filter into the "Master Socket" first.

It's just occurred to me that what I have been regarding as a master socket probably ins't a master socket at all. Here's a pic of my set-up



It looks to me like the chap who had the house before me has just extended the old hardwired master socket with an extension box ... in which case I'm guessing I've been lucky to get on at all?

Am I guessing right?
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Wiring problems

Yep. That's an old style master socket (the small box with the BT label). The new one looks like this:



What is strange is you need to fit an ADSL filter before it will work becauee the ADSL side of the filter is actually straight through (unfiltered), it's the phone side that actually has the filtering to block out the high frequency ADSL signalling.

I suggest you remove the cover off both boxes and check the wiring is actually correct as detailed in my previous links as it sounds like this may not be wired correctly. If you find it's not, don't try and use a small screwdriver to force the wires into the connectors (assumung they don't use screw connector) but get a proper crone tool - you can often gtet plastic ones from most component shops etc where extensions are sold. Get several as the plastic ones only last a few insertions.

Is the black cable plugged into the large socket (which has actually been fitted on it's side!!!) your extension lead or modem or something else?

Ideally you should get BT to change the small socket (and the ther laster extension one) to a proper master socket. They often do this for free but I'm not sure of the process to get this done. They may even filt additional filtering whoch may improve your possibility of getting 1Mb speeds.
N/A

Wiring problems

Cheers for all the help Peter.

When I opened it up I found even more surprises from my predecessor.

Not only did he just add a socket to a hardwired box rather than switch to a NTE5 but the extension that you see on its side in the picture is wired on exactly the same wire that makes it way down the back of the house externally to the dining room.

In other words he's stripped the wire in the middle, dropped the stripped bit into the hardwire box and then sent half of it downstairs and the other (smaller part) on the other side for the sideways extension!!

I'm amazed that it works at all after I've gone over it all.

Still can't work out why I need the filter but absolutely nothing works unfiltered:

1) High speed cable plugged in (Black cable on pic to back of modem)
2) PlusNet supplied cable with adapter
3) Dial-Up cable with adapter
4) New 10m cable with adapter

I'm working and in the right room at the moment with this set-up

Old Master>Dodgy Extension>Filter>Argos Extension & 10m modem cable>Modem & Double adapter>Phone & Dial Up.

Shouldn't work ... but is!
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Wiring problems

Quote
Not only did he just add a socket to a hardwired box rather than switch to a NTE5 but the extension that you see on its side in the picture is wired on exactly the same wire that makes it way down the back of the house externally to the dining room.

In other words he's stripped the wire in the middle, dropped the stripped bit into the hardwire box and then sent half of it downstairs and the other (smaller part) on the other side for the sideways extension!!


That in itself does not sound wrong, as long as they connected the correct wires. e.g.



Shows what you have, with the master socket being your small socket, the first extension being the socket next to it and the 2nd socket the one in your dining room.

So did they use the correct connections to 2, 3 & 5?

Quote
I'm working and in the right room at the moment with this set-up

Old Master>Dodgy Extension>Filter>Argos Extension & 10m modem cable>Modem & Double adapter>Phone & Dial Up.

Shouldn't work ... but is!


If the argos extension is connected to the phone side of the filter then your ADSL modem can never sync - unless you filter is faulty. Have you tried a different filter?