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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

Using AOL IM for talk or file transfer does not work between plusnet customer - why?
I have 3 friends on plusnet ADSL plus lots of family either on NTL or BlueYonder and even some on dialup.
Everyone who is not on Plusnet has no problem using the TALK or FILE TRANSFER. BUT the 3 on plusnet adsl can't. Two of them we had to setup VPN lan to lan to get it to work, but the third does not have a router like ours so it won't work.

The proof that its plusnet is that one guy if he dials up to his work he can then use AOLIM to talk or send files, but if he then uses (on the sam pc) his adsl connection to plusnet - it won't work.

Can someone help with this?
Thanks
8 REPLIES
jberry
Grafter
Posts: 1,886
Registered: 08-06-2007

Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

Hi there,

When you connect do you use a Router or a Modem? If you use a Router then this may be the problem as most messaging clients have problems sending if you are using NAT or running a firewall (MSN definately does but the principle is the same I think).

If NAT is the problem you would have to contact the equipment manuafacturer to make sure that it supports that aspect of AOL IM.

I would also make sure that you have tried without your firewall if you have one but other than that you will have to get someone who uses AOL IM to help you.

Regards,
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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

Josh - I always use the same equipment to connect to all people but ONLY PLUSNET customers I talk with have a problem. The only way to talk with other plusnet customers is to setup a router to router VPN connection (lan to lan).
With my router I can talk to NTL dialup - NTL cable modem Blue yonder cable modem etc quite fine. So my router end is not the problem - see what I mean.

Do you have any other suggestions?
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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

I don't think you have quite grasped what Josh is saying.

There are allways two end to a connection, and on each end, there is aconnection equipment.

In your case, this is a router.

When a connection is made to your router, the software will decide what to do with the connection. If there is port forwarding, then forward it to the correct internal IP, if not, it gets discarded.

In a VPN connection, port forwarding takes place, where each and every connection is forwarded.

Some routers have automatic forwarding. it detect what applications are in use on a certain machine. This isn't done by snooping, but by the ports being connected to on a remote machine.

Some routers do, and some don't do this. Soem do it better than others.

In the case of connecting to a machine on a Blue Tonder connection, it is as if you are connecting directly to the machine, rather than the router.

With a +Net connection and router, as noted above, you connect to the router, which decides what to do with the connection. The VPN version makes it like You connect directly.

This isn't a +Net issue, but rather the way router work.
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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

But I don't understand. If my router is working fine forwarding from router to client (when VPN is up) why doesn't it work when VPN is down. Remember this VPN is not client to client - its router to router. so the clients that hang off it are not making the connection.
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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

The VPN is router to router, and is known as a bridge.

This is where the two networks on either end of the connection become one (with the exception of broadcast packets, which do not do via the VPN).

It is as if the computer on the other end, is physicaly located on the same network.

Without the VPN, NAT is hiding direct access to your computer from the internet. With cable, there is no NAT, so the system can be directly connected to.

It is NAT that is causing this effect.
jberry
Grafter
Posts: 1,886
Registered: 08-06-2007

Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

Hi there,

It all has to do with the protocol that is used by the IM in question. The protocol that MSN uses for example (I can't remember what it's called off the top of my head) requires at least one end of the connection to be either unfirewalled (or NAT'ed) for a file transfer to work.

This means that if you have a router you will have more problems as only people who use modems and compatible fiewalls will be able to transfer files.

I have a beta version of the new MSN at the moment which has resolved this problem however but the problems are worst for aplications like netmeeting.

The only way to ensure that this is the problem however is to try all the stuff that currently has problems with someone who is definately on a modem (and not using ICS) and who is not running a firewall. I am pretty sure you will find that everything works fine (apart from maybe webcam feeds) Wink

Regards,
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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

I have posted this a few times before. MSN 6 *is* compatable with NAT for file transfer and video (webcam), probably audio as well but I have yet to test this. Yahoo messenger has been able to get through my router since I bought it in March so I'm not quite sure why MS have taken this long to get MSN to work with it....
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Plusnet and AOL Instant messanger

MSN use a peer-2-peer teqnique, where Yahoo! use a server.

Your webcam images are uploaded to a webserver, where a second clinet downloads them from. The Super-cam feature uses peer-2-peer, and is why it doesn't work with some connections (IE, NAT).

Voice is the same, it uses a voice server.

Files use 3 teqniques

1 & 2, peer-2-peer, where you act as the server, if fails, the receiver acts as the server. However, I do beleive that 2 isn't used anymore.
If these fail, a 3 is used, yes you guessed it, it is sent to a remote server, where the client then downloads from.

MSN 6 still requires that at least one machine doesn't have NAT, or the ports are forwarded.

I can't vouch for AIM, as I don't use these features, I only use it for IM with a laptop that is used by are company abroad.