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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

I'm currently on ADSL Home Self-Install with NAT and I was wondering what would I have do to do get additional IP addresses to use with my ADSL account and could I set this up in a mixed NAT and no NAT enviroment, or would I need to set a server to act as the gateway and NAT proxy?
10 REPLIES
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

I may be wrong but I think you need to have a business account to get multiple IP addresses. I have a block of addresses and what you can do with them depends on the router you have and how you set it up. Bear in mind that if you have 8 IP addresses, you only get to actually use 4 of them for PCs - the others are network and broadcast addresses, plus two for the router interfaces. At least, that's how it's worked out with my SAR110 and USR9003 routers.

Mike
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

All accounts can get a block of IP addresses if they request one (except home surf & biz surf I think which are old limited products). Just request it via contact with a suitable reason why you can't use NAT and a single IP address. If you are requesting 8 or 16 IP addresses, you also need to fill in a RIPE form. A tool to help you fill in a form which you can include in your contact us ticket can be found here.

To be able to use all IPs you need to disable NAT on your router. It is no possible to use both NAT and no-NAT on a single connection.

Also a block of 4 IPs is allocated as follows: 1 for network address (first IP in the block), 1 for router address (2nd IP in the block), 1 free (3rd IP in the block) and 1 for broadcast address (last IP in the block).

For 8 IPs you get 5 free and 16 IPs you get 13 free with the same assignments as detailed above.
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

Thank you for your help so far, just a few more questions as I'm feeling like a dunce at the moment, thought I understood networking. (just double checking really to make sure I understand it).

So to make use of 2 IP addresses, e.g. in a DNS nameserver setup (I know it is not recommended to run to nameservers from the same network range) I would need to look to requesting the 8 IP addresses, is that correct?

I have read the tutorial on setting up the SAR110 in No-NAT mode, however I'm confused, would this use the same setup with an 8 IP block, and would the 'ADSL router' just pass the IP address connections from the WAN to the LAN to be picked up by the responding PC's/Servers connected to a hub/switch connected.

e.g.

Internet ----> ADSL Router ----> Switch ---->Server1/Server2, etc.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

Quote
So to make use of 2 IP addresses, e.g. in a DNS nameserver setup (I know it is not recommended to run to nameservers from the same network range) I would need to look to requesting the 8 IP addresses, is that correct?


If you require more than 1 free IP address then an 8 IP block is required.

Quote
I have read the tutorial on setting up the SAR110 in No-NAT mode, however I'm confused, would this use the same setup with an 8 IP block, and would the 'ADSL router' just pass the IP address connections from the WAN to the LAN to be picked up by the responding PC's/Servers connected to a hub/switch connected.


Yes, it will work exactly as you have detailed. In effect the router just passes on the IPs unchanged from it's WAN (plusnet side) to it's LAN (your local network side), so you would need to setup static IPs on any PCs that require one of the IPs in your IP block.
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

Thank you very much for your time and help in this matter. I shall look into this in more detail to see if I do need this as I know IP's are limited so I will see if I can do what I am attempting using other methods first.
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

I too am thinking about asking for an 8 IP block as I want to run a webserver, but before the reply is " why not forward ports to the router on a NAT configuration" the reason is simple, I will be pointing a Domain name to the said address and when I type in the address I dont want the routers "please insert password etc" screen coming up, but my page showing instead, but when it comes to networking, im not a complete novice but im a bit stuck when it comes to the gateway IP and im thinking of 2 ways to do this..

I could use Plan 1 but that would mean i would lose other services such as file/print etc.. so by adding another NIC into the server I create Plan 2 so that those services should (note should) work, but again Im stuck at the gateway IP Sad

any comments before I tear my hair out :?

Thanks Smiley
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

Well, based on your responce, it would still seem the best way is to use port forwarding.

When you setup port forwarding, you are sending all data destined for your public IP originating on the internet, to a internal system.

Once you have setup the forwarded port, you should no longer get the password screen. Worse, you should disable the password screen from being exposed to the web now, as it is a security risk to you.

Using a single NIC and port forwarding, you won't lose any file or print sharing services.

Depending on the router, we may be able to guide you through setting up the forwarded port.
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

thank you for your reply, the password screen can only be accessed by the LAN and not the web, so in other words, what you would see is the web page coming up as per normal and wouldnt know that you're going through a router, but for me to type in the same web address, I would get the password screen as Im instructing the browser to access my Static IP via my router, I know how to forward ports and no matter how much i "fiddle" to use a better word with the settings, that will still be the outcome as the router has the modem built in, so in my view, the multiple IP's sound Ideal to get round this if you see where Im going with it, Sad so back to my original question's, do you think that the Gateway IP address be 192.168.1.1 or one of the allocated IPs from the block? and from looking at either plan (equipment isnt a problem as I have spare stuff from cables to NICs here) would in your knowledgable view think there would be any problems with either setup? and if so, in your opinion, how to recify it Smiley

and to add

in the contact us wizard concerning RIPE it asks for organisation, as this is a private site and not a company site, what would you put in there :?

Thanks Again Smiley
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

Right, I am begining to see how your system will work now.

It depends on the router, as to what IP it gets.

If using a netblock, it will be only of the public IP's, and not a LAN IP.
Sometimes routers allow both NAT and no-NAT devices on the same segment. In cases like this, the router will get both a internal and external gateway IP.
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No NAT Setup or multiple IP addresses

well Plusnet have allocated a block of 8 IP's and I managed to get it working ok, thanks to peter and his solwise tutorial put me in the correct direction in sorting it out, now I have no-nat and nat running in the same network Cheesy

heres the Diagram in case anyone else wants to know how.. Smiley

so in essence out of the 8 IP's given to you, you can only really use 5 Wink

so mine is like..

IP1 of Block = Network Address
IP2 of Block = Router
IP3 of Block = Router 2
IP4 of Block = Server
IP5 of block = Spare
IP6 of block = Spare
IP7 of block = Spare
IP8 of block = Broadcast

Thanks for the help Smiley