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No Broadband, No ADSL??

gpsmout
Grafter
Posts: 334
Thanks: 1
Registered: 09-10-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

I'm sure i read somewhere that BT is now making a fortune from ADSL Broadband, and that it claims to cover 90% of the population. As one of those 10% it doesnt cover, (the distance from home to exchange is too far by approx 500m) I think i saw an announcement that BT hope to extrend coverage to 99.5% of the population by next year. Does anyone know if this is to include extending the distance ADSL can cover, or is it simply refering to enabling more and more exchanges.

If the 5.5km limit is to be retained how can I improve my connection speed? the only options I seem to have are ISDN, home highway or satellite, the latter being far to expensive, and no, cable isnt an option, we are too far and too remote for that,

There must be thousands of users who would like a speedier service. Any ideasa anyone?

I also was told by an engineer from BT that theoretically ADSL need not be limited to 5.5km, in factit has been extended to 6km by improving the hardware in some exchanges. If they could the equipment for remote users os insatll repeater stations en route, the probelm may be solved. IS thsi true?

Just curious!!!!

Graham smout
11 REPLIES
N/A

No Broadband, No ADSL??

No added hardware is used for these extended reaches. They have done little more than increase there line calsification limits

In September, BT will be all but removing distance limits on 512Kb ADSL. Those under 75dB (tested by BT) will just be activated, whilst those over, will receive a new faceplate for your master socket.

It will be bassed on it either working or doesn't basis. So onus will be to make sure that any faulure to operate is not in your equipment. If it is, BT will class it as an early life failure (refunded activation).
gpsmout
Grafter
Posts: 334
Thanks: 1
Registered: 09-10-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

Where can i find out about this and how to activate, or try, for ADSL extended reach? recently BT tested our line and said it was below 60Db. So Is this likely to work when the limits are lifted?

Additionally, why cant booster equipment be usd to reach more remote locations? ADSL is, as I undertstand in limited terms, simply an adaptation of the PCM technology developed by the BBC and other broadcaters to get stereo signals to remote FM transmitters using telephone liens as far back as the early 1960's. Its hardly groundbreaking technology really.
N/A

No Broadband, No ADSL??

I couldn't tell you anything about they background technology. However, based on your description, I would say it isn't anything like it.

Boosters can't be used in ADSL, for the same reason turning up the gain on the line doesn't work either.

As you increase the signal, you increase the noise by thr same proportion too. You end up with the same signal to noise ratio, so if the SNR is too low, it remains low.

Who where you told your line attuation was below 60dB?

If it was a standard test from BT, then this is of no use. ADSL tests are performed at a much higher frequency to normal tests (or ISDN/Home Highway tests), which are much more prone to attuation.

A 50dB line on one frequency, can be out of ADSL range on another frequency.

If it was however an ADSL tests, then you should be able to get ADSL now, as the current limits for RADSL are 60dB.

You don't apply for extended reach, you just apply for ADSL. If you are in limits, you are activated. If your out, your not. You will however have to wait until September until you can apply for ADSL under the new new limits.

I sugest watching the fron page of ADSL Guide for details. http://www.adslguide.org.uk/
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,983
Thanks: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

Philip is correct.

There is little resemblance between the early PCM transmission systems and todays ADSL. Ok they are both digital buts thats where the similarity ends.

The PCM technology uses a "Sampling" sytem whereby an analogue signal was converted to a digital one. One pair of wires is used in each direction so you could have "repeaters" or "amplifiers" in the line.

ASDSL however is digital all the way from your home to your ISP and it uses just one pair of wires (your phone line) for both directions of transmission between the exchange and you. So using repeaters is not possible.
In addition the frequency band used by ADSL is a lt higher than that used by PCM
And as Philip has stated if you amplify a signal you amplify the noise as well so the Signal to Noise Ratio remains the same.


The only way to overcome this is to start with a much higher signal level being transmitted. But remember that to gain just 3 dBs you would have to double the transmitted power. There is a limit to the amount of power or signal strength that can be transmitted as you soon begin to interfere with other circuits carried in the same cable if its to high. With some cables carrying 2000 pairs of wires this would be a massive problem if the transmitted levels were too high.

So I'm affraid that for the moment we are stuck with the present limits until the current ongoing trials are completed and it may be possible to relax these a little.
gpsmout
Grafter
Posts: 334
Thanks: 1
Registered: 09-10-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

What you are both saying is hang on and see for a few weeks.

I had a good look at the Milton Keynes Action for broadband site yesterday. The results from the ADSL trials there are quite staggering, only a tiny number of ADSL connections failed to work at all, some were over 10km away from the excahnge and others had 100db in loss and still worked.

I am in a situaution where a neighbour who is further from the exchange than I am already has ADSL, and the advice fromMK is dont tell BT, they might disconect!

BT themselves tested my line, they said, and I will post a copy of theier comment in another post. But it seems from MK as though BT do not use live information about line conditions etc, but rely on old and innacurate paper records to feed their database. Now i can drive from my home to the exvahnge and the distance is exactly 5.6km, and the lines travel along the route I take. Add this to the fact that BT have replaced all the able over the last 2km to my home in the last 12 months as it all got vapourised in a lightning strike, and I may just be in with a chance of a working ADSL connection.

Thanks dor all the help and comment.

Graham
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,983
Thanks: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

Yes from what I read the future may well be that you apply for ADSL and its installed without any tests being conducted.
It will then either work :lol: or it wont. Cry
If it works then fine you have ADSL. If it doesn't then get your mony back but no ADSL. :roll:
gpsmout
Grafter
Posts: 334
Thanks: 1
Registered: 09-10-2007

BT; thier excuse!

From: <btbroadband@bt.com>
To: <
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: I have a query about BT Broadband (KMM3907454I15378L0KM)


> Dear Mr Smout
>
> Thank you for your e-mail regarding the availability of Broadband to your
home.
>
> Please accept my sincerest apologies for the delay in replying to your
recent email and for any inconvenience this may have caused.
>
> The line limits for ADSL technology are based on whether the signal from
the exchange to your property is strong enough to deliver a stable broadband
service. If you put a signal down a cable, the signal will get weaker as the
cable gets longer: this is referred to as line loss. This line loss is
greater at higher frequencies. ADSL works on much higher frequencies than
the ordinary telephone service, so the length of line over which a
satisfactory signal can be passed is shorter for ADSL than for ordinary
telephone service. For ADSL, the limit we have set is 60dB.
>
> The main factor in the amount of line loss will be the length of the cable
between your house and the exchange. Lines longer than 6km are unlikely to
be within the 60dB limit. Whether lines shorter than 6km will pass the line
test, will depend on a variety of factors, such as the amount of joints in
the line, the use of aluminium etc. Each line is measured individually and
it is possible for neighbouring houses to receive different results. I would
like to add that sometimes, due to a number of possible factors, the line
loss readings may increase and any results you have received in the past,
cannot guarantee you will be able to receive this service in the future.
>
> I'm afraid that BT will not be able to investigate for each individual
line why their line loss is outside the required 60dB limit, nor are we able
to re-route lines in order to provide customers with ADSL broadband. The
information on the checker is regularly updated to reflect the latest data
on each telephone number and if it indicates that your line is outside the
current limits, it will unfortunately not be possible to deliver broadband
to your address.
>
> I do hope this information is useful to you, however if you require any
further information then please do not hesitate in contacting me again via
email and I will be more than happy to help. Alternatively you can contact
our BT Broadband Helpdesk on 0800 800 060
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact BT Broadband and may I take this
opportunity to wish you a pleasant day.
>
> Best Wishes and Kind Regards
> Yours sincerely,
>
>
>
> Amy Logan
> BT Broadband Contact Centre
> Ref;1757731
> Original Message Follows:
> ------------------------
>
>
> Feedback
>
>
> Customer Selection: BT Broadband Availability
>
> Feedback from Mr graham Smout
> Telephone Number: 01535

> Account Number: MY
> Email Address: gpsmout

>
> Customer Comments :
>
>
> I have applied for adsl line conversion via my ISP, Plus Net (Force9)
> but the application has been refused on the grounds that our telephone
> line is longer than 6km. However, I have measured the distance using
> car, maps and online services, and taking into account the shorter
> distance which I believe your service cable takes to my property, I
> calculate the maximum distance of the cable is 5.7 km. Could you please
> confirm that an ADSL service can or cannot be supplied to this number,
> and if it cannot, what is the next best option for a faster service that
> does not tie up the phone line? Using a conventinal 56k modem the best
> connection speed I get is 42,000 bps but it is often a lot lower than
> this.
>
> Many Thanks
>
>
>
> Graham Smout
>
>
>
> End of Form Data
michaelscott
Grafter
Posts: 594
Registered: 09-08-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

In this month's issue of PCPlus, avcbroadband.com advertised 512k Satellite broadband for £29.99 per month, with free connection and free installation and a one-off equipment cost of £69.99
N/A

No Broadband, No ADSL??

michaelscott:

Satelite broadband has it's pitfalls though. It is of no use for gamers, due to the latency of the connection (roughly 1 second).

gpsmout:

BT's line loss records are updated pretty often (unsure of the exact timeframes).

Automated systems perform testing at night, as part of routine maintenance to the whole network. Phone networks are highly complex structures, that are suseptable to issues as much as any computer system or network.

Nightime tests and maintenance allow them to fix problems before they become noticable, or provide alternative solutions without you even noticing.

BT update the loss measurments all the time, whilst performing these tests.
michaelscott
Grafter
Posts: 594
Registered: 09-08-2007

No Broadband, No ADSL??

I am well aware of the latency of satellite connections, Phillip. However, for those who have no other form of broadband available to them, what can they do?
N/A

No Broadband, No ADSL??

I'm currently on 512kbit.

However, I'm bang on 60dB line loss. But i moves about from 59-61.

Would a new face plate increase my chances of being able to receive 1mbit when the limits are raised?

According to my router the downstream noise margin is 21dB