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Max Upload -> Slow download : (

N/A

Max Upload -> Slow download : (

Good day to you all.

Got a quick question for you.

I have noticed some thing strange recently (but beleive it has always been the case). When my upload is maxed out, my download speed drop's to a rediculous amount (as little as 10k).

To test this, I enlisted the aid of a friend, another adsl account and a 2meg pipe Smiley

I uploaded a large file to my friend and waited for the speed to stabalise, which it did at 31k.

He then proceeded to upload a file to my self wich in theory should top out at about 60k as he is on a 2 meg pipe, but i would have been satisfied (just) with about 55k Smiley

We waited for it to settle and his upload to me maxed out at about 8k, as soon as I stopped MY upload his immediately started to grow, and was bouncing around 55k

My question is, why?

I am using a little froggy for my connection, or is it a sting ray? The nasty green speedtouch doohiky.
8 REPLIES
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

> Good day to you all.
>
> Got a quick question for you.
>
> I have noticed some thing strange recently (but beleive it has always been the case). When my upload is maxed out, my download speed drop's to a rediculous amount (as little as 10k).
>
> To test this, I enlisted the aid of a friend, another adsl account and a 2meg pipe Smiley
>
> I uploaded a large file to my friend and waited for the speed to stabalise, which it did at 31k.
>
> He then proceeded to upload a file to my self wich in theory should top out at about 60k as he is on a 2 meg pipe, but i would have been satisfied (just) with about 55k Smiley
>
> We waited for it to settle and his upload to me maxed out at about 8k, as soon as I stopped MY upload his immediately started to grow, and was bouncing around 55k
>
> My question is, why?
>
> I am using a little froggy for my connection, or is it a sting ray? The nasty green speedtouch doohiky.

Its 'Cause your pc needs to tell his pc that it has recieved packets of data correctly (i.e. send data back to his p.c. saying what it has/hasn't recieved), which, if your upload is 'maxed out', it can't do as quickly, so, his P.C. will wait longer before sending the next packet of data.

your choice of hardware will not affect this.

Hope this makes sense


Bill


N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

> > Good day to you all.
> >
> > Got a quick question for you.
> >
> > I have noticed some thing strange recently (but beleive it has always been the case). When my upload is maxed out, my download speed drop's to a rediculous amount (as little as 10k).
> >
> > To test this, I enlisted the aid of a friend, another adsl account and a 2meg pipe Smiley
> >
> > I uploaded a large file to my friend and waited for the speed to stabalise, which it did at 31k.
> >
> > He then proceeded to upload a file to my self wich in theory should top out at about 60k as he is on a 2 meg pipe, but i would have been satisfied (just) with about 55k Smiley
> >
> > We waited for it to settle and his upload to me maxed out at about 8k, as soon as I stopped MY upload his immediately started to grow, and was bouncing around 55k
> >
> > My question is, why?
> >
> > I am using a little froggy for my connection, or is it a sting ray? The nasty green speedtouch doohiky.
>
> Its 'Cause your pc needs to tell his pc that it has recieved packets of data correctly (i.e. send data back to his p.c. saying what it has/hasn't recieved), which, if your upload is 'maxed out', it can't do as quickly, so, his P.C. will wait longer before sending the next packet of data.
>
> your choice of hardware will not affect this.
>
> Hope this makes sense
>
>
> Bill
>
Thank's for the reply bill, but I find it very difficult to beleive that the above would cause the download to drop by over 500%

There has to be another explination for this.

Doug
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

From what I have read, and experienced, ADSL is not two distict pipes (upload and download seperation).

It is very simalar to dialup.

You have a specrum, in which both downloads and uploads take place (Or they at least cross into each other spectrum).

For every 1Kbit / second you download, you are using 2 Kbits / second of the upload spectum.

IE, you can only do one of the other, or intermix into the middle.

When connections are saturated with traffic, ACKs take longer to traverse the PIPE in both directions, and thus connections can seem to slow down.
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

Not sure I agree with the others - I have run P2P with about 5/6 connections running fairly quickly using almost all of the download bandwidth and can still upload to plus ftp at almost full speed(not reduced as much as 500%) - if any!

Chris
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

> From what I have read, and experienced, ADSL
> is not two distict pipes (upload and download
> seperation).

Upload and download *are* distinct. They are different frequency bands that don't overlap.

> It is very simalar to dialup.

Even dial-up modems have echo cancellation that allows simultaneous transmission and reception.

> You have a specrum, in which both downloads and
> uploads take place (Or they at least cross into
> each other spectrum).
>
> For every 1Kbit / second you download, you are
> using 2 Kbits / second of the upload spectum.
>
> IE, you can only do one of the other, or intermix
> into the middle.

I believe all of this to be false.

> When connections are saturated with traffic, ACKs
> take longer to traverse the PIPE in both
> directions, and thus connections can seem to slow
> down.

There is some merit in this point. Every packet you download causes an acknowledgement to be sent. If you are saturating your upload allocation, your ACK-laden packets will be queued by the OS etc.

I would hazard a guess that your machine and/or modem are unable to handle higher loads. ADSL /per se/ is able to handle full-on concurrent transmission and reception.
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

> Not sure I agree with the others - I have run P2P with about 5/6 connections running fairly quickly using almost all of the download bandwidth and can still upload to plus ftp at almost full speed(not reduced as much as 500%) - if any!
>
> Chris
-------------------------
Me too. The theory sounds right but in practice using Kazaa I've had about 40k down and 20-oddk up all at once.

Hardware COULD be an issue.
--
Come on Boro!
http://www.waynessa.co.uk/boro.htm
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

>> When connections are saturated with traffic, ACKs
>> take longer to traverse the PIPE in both
>> directions, and thus connections can seem to slow
>> down.

>There is some merit in this point. Every packet you >download causes an acknowledgement to be sent. If you >are saturating your upload allocation, your ACK-laden >packets will be queued by the OS etc.

>I would hazard a guess that your machine and/or modem >are unable to handle higher loads. ADSL /per se/ is >able to handle full-on concurrent transmission and >reception.

I can fully accept that there would be a slight slow down in both speed and responsivness, I just feel that the drop I am expeariencing is a bit over the top.

With regards to the spec of the machine it is a Dual PIII 350 running Linux RedHat 8.0
I don't beleive there are any specific issues with the linux implementation to get the ADSL modem up and running but I may be wrong.

I don't see any excessive loading on the machine while I do the transfer's.

I was hoping some one else had seen the comment I had about a possible problem with the frogy when the upload is maxed out, but it would appear no one has : (

Tis a pain as I can't remember where I saw it.
N/A

RE: Max Upload -> Slow download : (

>> Not sure I agree with the others - I have run P2P >> with about 5/6 connections running fairly quickly >> using almost all of the download bandwidth and >> can still upload to plus ftp at almost full >> speed(not reduced as much as 500%) - if any!
>>
>> Chris
>-------------------------
>Me too. The theory sounds right but in practice >using Kazaa I've had about 40k down and 20-oddk up >all at once.
>
>Hardware COULD be an issue.
>

This problem only occurs when my upload is maxed out, if I keep my upload below about 28k I don't notice any meaningfull drop in my download spead, it is only when it goes above 28k and towards the 31k 32k mark and the download just dissapear's.