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Line noise

ForeverArsenal
Grafter
Posts: 179
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Hi
At the moment I am on 512k and wish to upgrade to 1mb. have put in
a request for a upgrade but have been told by plusnet there is to much
noise on my line and they have put my request on hold until new regs kick in.

Can anyone tell me from the following figures (got from web interface in SAR110) if I should be able to upgrade to 1mb,hope these figures below
are what needed to tell .

DSL Parameters and Status

Revision Number: T93.3.37
Serial Number: Solwise-270404
Local Tx Power: 11.12 dB
Remote Tx Power: 16.19 dB
Local Line Atten.: 50.0 dB
Remote Line Atten.: 26.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 7.5 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 22.0 dB
Self Test: Passed
DSL Standard: G.dmt
T





Many thanks.
Barry
14 REPLIES
N/A

Line noise

Currently the limits are 41dB for 1Meg and 2Meg and 60dB for 512. On the 6th these change so that they are 41dB for 2Meg, 60dB for 1Meg and effectively no limit for 512K (as long as it can handle the throughput).

So basically at the moment with your line getting 50dB you can only get 512k for now but after the 6th you should be able to get 1Meg
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Better to quote the equipment connected version of the line limits:

Now: 512K 60dB, 1Mb & 2Mb 45dB
6th Sept: 512K no limit, 1Mb 60dB, 2Mb 45dB
ForeverArsenal
Grafter
Posts: 179
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Quote
Currently the limits are 41dB for 1Meg and 2Meg and 60dB for 512.


HI codezero and Peter

Many thanks for the replies,clears that up for me Smiley
Barry

[Moderators note (by Thomas): Quoting fixed for you.]
N/A

Line noise

your welcome Smiley
N/A

Line noise

Pinebox88, the most important figure you gave was the Local Signal to Noise Ratio margin of 7.5dB. Thats not a very good figure really and the changes to the limits on 6th Sept will not improve that. Not all bad news though.

From the 6th if someone is having problems with their connection and a BT engineer is sent out to correct it there will be several ways to improve your line.
If there is a better quality cable underground between the exchange and your DP (pole) your line can be moved on to that and therefore improve the line quality.
If that is not possible, your master socket can be fitted with a Service Specific Frontplate which is basically a new front plate for the socket that has a filter and this can cure a lot of problems caused by extensions, the installation of this removes the need for plug in filters but the downside is that an adsl modem/router needs to be connected directly to the master socket.
If this socket is not where your computer is then the BT engineer will be able to install a data extension to a location of your choice (within 30m), this socket is purely for the adsl connection, there is no phone point on this socket.

Hope this helps.

One other thing. The limit for 2Mb will change from 41dB to 43.1dB not much but might make a few people smile... grin.
N/A

Line noise

There is some debate if or not the 2Mb limits have actualy changed or not.

It is true that in past encounters, BT quote 41dB for a pre-enabled line. Now that the new limits are about to kick in, press releases are begining to say 43dB (though doesn't state pre or post enabled).

The training material for engineers also states 43dB.

For those not in the know, enabling ADSL on a line increases attuation by around 4dB. This is not a hard coded value, but means most people quote 41dB pre-enabled and 45dB post-enabled.

As noted, past information always states 41dB, and new press releases clearly state that these extended reach trials have made no changes to 2Mb limits what so ever.

It comes down to the question, is this a mistake on BT's part? If so, what part of it is the mistake. The 43dB figures, or the fact no changes to the 2Mb product spec?

One conclusion is that some marketing droid over at BT took 41dB (pre-enabled) and 45dB (post-enabled) and calculated an average (43dB). Technicaly, this is clearly wrong.

I will be trying to get an answer to the whole ora surounding what could possibly be a marketing cockup later today. If it is a true increase, why not advertise it more? such changes are excelent market drivers. The lack of advertising and the "no change" statement do point towards 43dB being a merketing decision.
ForeverArsenal
Grafter
Posts: 179
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Quote
Pinebox88, the most important figure you gave was the Local Signal to Noise Ratio margin of 7.5dB. Thats not a very good figure really and the changes to the limits on 6th Sept will not improve that. Not all bad news though.


Hi dellik
Thanks for the reply,as regards above figure are you saying 7.5db may
stop me from being able to upgrade to 1mb ??or may have problems if I do.

Quote
If that is not possible, your master socket can be fitted with a Service Specific Frontplate which is basically a new front plate for the socket that has a filter and this can cure a lot of problems caused by extensions


Afraid I don't have anything like you describe above,the wires come from
the pole///into house///then into a small(matchbox size) BT white plastic box,
removing the cover shows the wires coming in from pole joined directly by small poly covered crimp joiners to two 6
strand internal cables (3 used in each cable) 1 internal goes to living room
other goes upstairs to 2 telephones +comp//router...

The BT white box was renewed 2 yrs back as old (30 yrs +)one with screw terminals had corroded badly,the present one does no more really than twisting the outside//inside wires together would do ..

Many thanks
Barry








.
N/A

Line noise

From the sound ot it you have the newer version of BT's master socket, it should have a removable lower section, with a split about a 1/4 way down it. Behind this panel is the test socket, and the front panel should connect to the test socket.

If you were to replace the front panel with a Service Specific Frontplate, it should just plug into the test socket, as your current front panel does.

Aaron
N/A

Line noise

Hi Barry

First off the 7.5dB figure shouldn't stop you being converted to 1Mb, but it could cause problems (dropping connection, etc). This can be corrected in most cases (see lower).

From the way you've described your wiring it sounds like the living room socket is the master and instead of running the extension cable from the master socket to the extension, (the correct way) they have teed the cable on to the line before it even reaches the master, which was just a trick used to make the job easier for the BT enineer who did it. This will most likely cause problems with ADSL lines but can easily be corrected.

If you do have to have a BT engineer visit he will sort out the wiring problem and be able to try a few things to improve your service so no need to worry yet.

From tomorrow we can convert your master socket to an nte5 (if it isn't already) and add a new frontplate which is basically an adsl filter and removes the need for filters on all extension sockets, this can cause a problem in the fact that the only place to connect the adsl modem/router is then the master socket. Because the master socket is not allways where your modem/router is located the engineer will be able to install a Data extension (only accepts adsl connection not a telephone) to where you want within 30m. This is done free by the way, so no fear over being charged. This alteration removes most of the problems caused by extension wiring by seperating the adsl circuit from all the extension wiring.

Also you stated that the box where the external cable and internal wires meet was changed 2yrs back due to corroded terminals on the ancient 30yr+ box. This makes me think your Dropwire (cable that comes from the pole) maybe the old variety too which could easily be in a poor state. These will be changed if neccesary.

If all this fails we can also change the cable your line uses from the pole to exchange if there is one of better quality available, a lot of times there is better cables underground.

Hope this all makes sense and shows you have a good chance of getting 1Mb adsl that works properly. I certainly hope so myself as i'm going to be putting my line up for 1Mb soon when all the rush dies down a little.

One last point, if you do need an engineer to visit make sure you offer him loads of coffee and biscuits, especially if you live in the South Yorkshire area as it might be me visiting and i'm easily bribed by food and drink... ;-)

Good Luck
Mick
ForeverArsenal
Grafter
Posts: 179
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Hi Barry


First off the 7.5dB figure shouldn't stop you being converted to 1Mb, but it could cause problems (dropping connection, etc). This can be corrected in most cases (see lower).

Hi dellik
Many thanks for the detailed reply and glad to know I should be able to get the 1mb ,to date I've had no trouble at all with 512k (14 months) so will have to see how it goes.




Quote
From the way you've described your wiring it sounds like the living room socket is the master and instead of running the extension cable from the master socket to the extension,


Yes you are correct,two wires from the small white box just inside front door
one to living room,other up the stairs and feeds two phones +comp.


Quote
If you do have to have a BT engineer visit he will sort out the wiring problem and be able to try a few things to improve your service so no need to worry yet.

Thats nice to know Cheesy

Quote
From tomorrow we can convert your master socket to an nte5 (if it isn't already) and add a new frontplate which is basically an adsl filter and removes the need for filters on all extension sockets, this can cause a problem in the fact that the only place to connect the adsl modem/router is then the master socket. Because the master socket is not allways where your modem/router is located the engineer will be able to install a Data extension (only accepts adsl connection not a telephone) to where you want within 30m.


Unstand what your saying as re above,I have nothing fancy all on any part
of my phone line installation.The *white box* just inside the front door is
just that,has nothing in it at all,it's just a cover for the outside//inside wire
joins.
As regards master socket ?all the telephone sockets in the house look the same the only difference I can see is the one in the living room has a
slightly larger cylinder looking thing in it :? . They all look like this one

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GP23A.html



Quote
Also you stated that the box where the external cable and internal wires meet was changed 2yrs back due to corroded terminals on the ancient 30yr+ box. This makes me think your Dropwire (cable that comes from the pole) maybe the old variety too which could easily be in a poor state. These will be changed if neccesary.


Hmm,as re dropwires they have been renewed from pole to house.

Quote
If this fails we can also change the cable your line uses from the pole to exchange


Also done some 2 yrs back,I've been on the internet for over six yrs now
5 on dial-up,approx two yrs back unknown to me at the time BT installed
a second line for neighbour and the buggers put a DACS on my line,
after weeks and weeks of trying I managed to get it removed *but*
after they had messed about I had bad intermittent noise on the line that
took several weeks and several engineers visits to cure,been ok since
tho Cheesy

Quote
One last point, if you do need an engineer to visit make sure you offer him loads of coffee and biscuits, especially if you live in the South Yorkshire area as it might be me visiting and i'm easily bribed by food and drink... ;-)


Well, Essex is a fair old run for you :lol: *but* if I have trouble and they
send you (think of the overtime) their will be lots of everything for you.

Many thanks
Barry



Good Luck
ForeverArsenal
Grafter
Posts: 179
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Quote
gadgetboy"]From the sound ot it you have the newer version of BT's master socket,


Aaron
Hi Aaron
Thanks for reply,please see reply to dellik for more info.
Many thanks
Barry
N/A

Line noise

Hi again,
Just to confirm that your socket in the living room is the master socket, albeit the older version (2/2A), the cylinder looking thing is a capacitor that makes your phone's ring.
If the engineer has to visit make sure he converts the 2/2A to the newer version (NTE5a). Not only do you need the newer socket to have an adsl frontplate fitted (if that is neccessary) it makes it a lot easier for you to run your own extensions from the master socket.

Yep your right Essex is a bit too far for me, especially as i'm waaaaay too lazy to work overtime... grin

Right all this chat has made me realise i better rush and put in a request for my own upgrade to 1Mb.

Best wishes
Mick
ForeverArsenal
Grafter
Posts: 179
Registered: 30-07-2007

Line noise

Quote
Hi again,
Just to confirm that your socket in the living room is the master socket, albeit the older version (2/2A), the cylinder looking thing is a capacitor that makes your phone's ring.
Best wishes
Mick


Many thanks Mick.best wishes
N/A

Line noise

Quote
Right all this chat has made me realise i better rush and put in a request for my own upgrade to 1Mb.


Wouldn't it be funny if you had to do your own regrade? Eh.. no? Just me then... :roll: