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Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

Garry
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: 05-08-2007

Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

2002-10-08
04:04:44 Comment By:
Garry Bolland:
Have recently installed ADSL but having problems with noisy telephone calls.
Have installed filters from BT http://www.btopenworld.dslshop.co.uk/lineonly/filters.asp but still having problems.
Have got four and tried all four on different telephone extensions with same problem with different degrees of noise. Any ideas?

2002-10-08
04:09:38 Comment By: jsheldon
Dear Customer
Have you tried contacting BT on 151 to see if they can check your line for noise and quality?
Regards
Support Actioned

2002-10-08
04:22:44 Comment By: Garry Bolland
The problem only occurs when having the ADSL modem on line. Why should it be a BT problem with noise i.e without the modem online no noise on the line. I would have suspected a filter problem but thius is unlikely as I have four. Therefore I was suspecting perhaps the suggestion of the internal wiring or even suggesting another filter or perhaps two in Line.
Can you explain why you think it is a BT problem? d

2002-10-08
04:36:22 Comment By: jsheldon
Dear Customer
The line from your home is an integral part of the ADSL service. If the line is of a lesser quality, then this willl adversely affect your connection. BT can perform tests that measure the noise, when and when not connected. This may help to isolate the problem. If not, then thisa could still be a splitter issue. You may have bought a bad batch, it is possible, if not a little unlikely?
regards


2002-10-08
23:13:37 Comment By: Garry Bolland
I have contacted BT to do a line test. Let you know what happens.
Additional question do you need a microfilter on all anologue extensions even those that you do not intend to use generally but still have a phone on them or pehaps Sky etc.
Don't see that this would cause a problem until they go off-hook. Any more ideas before BT get back to me?

2002-10-09
04:20:45 Comment By: dbaskerville
Dear Customer
Yes you do need to have a splitter/filter on ever socket that there is a telephone connected.
Regards

2002-10-09
06:40:12 Comment By: Garry Bolland
Why - when there not ative i.e. when there not ON hook can you explain? Please
Regards

2002-10-09
07:00:12 Comment By: Garry Bolland
This ticket has now been escalated as a high priority

2002-10-09
20:30:22 Comment By: Garry Bolland
Have talked to BT who did a line test - they so no problems so what's next?

2002-10-10
05:23:30 Comment By: pbillingham
Dear Customer
There has to be a splitter on every socket with a phone attached else this can cause the interference that you are getting

2002-10-10
07:15:57 Comment By: Garry Bolland
Why?

2002-10-10
07:25:00 Comment By: stuxford
Dear customer,
Please try jsut PC and one phone with splitter into master socket to see if this improves your problem.
Regards support.

2002-10-10
21:41:16 Comment By: Garry Bolland
OK I am coming to the same conclusion but I was trying to simply diagnose the problem remotely as I am away from home at the moment.
I would hate to buy 11 Microfilters anyway and was trying to find the Technical reasons for why you should install filters on everyline even those that are not used on a regular basis.
That is Sky, Alarm Auto dialler, Caller Display, Cordless Phone, Two PC Modems, and all the other phones (5 in bedrooms etc.) Yep I know about the REN but the ringer has been disabled in all put one and most of the other Units only present a fraction of REN (.2 to.5)
I would still like to know the reason why even though there mostly On Hook but looks like I am going to have to reslove to Reverse Engineering - and pull the Whole lot apart - should be fun from Canada.

2002-10-11
08:39:19 Comment By: dbuckley
Dear Customer
You can use the phone without a filter on, but the filters filter out the background noise caused by the ADSL, they also get rod of the interference your voice and dialtones causes on the ADSL line.
Using your ADSL without filters can seriously affect the quality of your connection.
I hope this answers your question, if you have any others please do not hesitate to contact us again.

2002-10-11
14:16:25 Comment By: Garry Bolland
So are you saying that the phones without filters on should not effect the phones with filters on - the ones that you are actually making the calls on?
So you should only here noise on the phones without filters on but not on the phones with filters on.
So you don't need filters on every extension - right?

2002-10-11
16:43:18 Comment By: mjianikos
Dear Customer
You need a filter on everything that is plugged into the phone line even if it is on the hook. This is because of the way in which ADSL works on the phone line.

2002-10-11
17:08:06 Comment By: Gary Bolland
OK,
Here we go again - I am an Enginner, (frustrated in Canada) I would like to know why? The Technical reasons - can you point me to a technical link. (hyperlink but please no fob off's)
Because I am currently looking at buying 11 microfilters and I am going to be upset if it is still noisy.
Mind you I am unlikely to do that and will probably pull all the extensions apart.
However, I am in Canada and I am not going to ask the girlfriend to pull everthing apart - understand.
I am trying to use logic and support.
Please Please Please find someone who can answer the reason why or were going to have the longest Problem ID ever - Trust Me. If if you close this one down - i'll just open another one (PLEASE)
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE seem real technical support.
Regards

Garry
PS. Did I say PLEASE Assigned

2002-10-12
17:47:33 Comment By: dbuckley
Dear Customer
I'm providing a link to a site that should help you with the technical side of your query. As for the in depth answer, I can only suggest google.com as your best source of an answer.

2002-10-13
21:06:22 Comment By: Garry Bolland
Can'y find anywhere that says you haave to fit filters on every phone (even those that you do not use)
What is the technical reason for fitting filters on every phone? Why should not fitting filters on unused phones effect the noise on used phones?

2002-10-14
04:30:44 Comment By: mjianikos
Dear Customer
I would recommend that you contact BT on 151 and ask them. Basically in the training and information that has been provided to us from BT we are informed that a spliter is required for every device that is plugged into the phone line. Therefore I would recommend that you contact BT direct as they will know the exact technical reasoning behind this.

2002-10-14
06:32:44 Comment By: Garry Bolland
Yer from Canada
Nice call buddy
Thanks
Garry
PS. Have a nice day!

2002-10-14
06:36:51 Comment By: mjianikos
Dear Customer
No problems should you have any further problems please do not hesitate to contact us again.
I hope I will - cheers!
Mike



7 REPLIES
wandelaar
Grafter
Posts: 186
Registered: 17-08-2007

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

> 2002-10-08
> 04:04:44 Comment By:
> Garry Bolland:
> Have recently installed ADSL but having problems with noisy telephone calls.
> Have installed filters from BT http://www.btopenworld.dslshop.co.uk/lineonly/filters.asp but still having problems.
> Have got four and tried all four on different telephone extensions with same problem with different degrees of noise. Any ideas?
>
> 2002-10-08
> 04:09:38 Comment By: jsheldon
> Dear Customer
> Have you tried contacting BT on 151 to see if they can check your line for noise and quality?
> Regards
> Support Actioned
>
> 2002-10-08
> 04:22:44 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> The problem only occurs when having the ADSL modem on line. Why should it be a BT problem with noise i.e without the modem online no noise on the line. I would have suspected a filter problem but thius is unlikely as I have four. Therefore I was suspecting perhaps the suggestion of the internal wiring or even suggesting another filter or perhaps two in Line.
> Can you explain why you think it is a BT problem? d
>
> 2002-10-08
> 04:36:22 Comment By: jsheldon
> Dear Customer
> The line from your home is an integral part of the ADSL service. If the line is of a lesser quality, then this willl adversely affect your connection. BT can perform tests that measure the noise, when and when not connected. This may help to isolate the problem. If not, then thisa could still be a splitter issue. You may have bought a bad batch, it is possible, if not a little unlikely?
> regards
>
>
> 2002-10-08
> 23:13:37 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> I have contacted BT to do a line test. Let you know what happens.
> Additional question do you need a microfilter on all anologue extensions even those that you do not intend to use generally but still have a phone on them or pehaps Sky etc.
> Don't see that this would cause a problem until they go off-hook. Any more ideas before BT get back to me?
>
> 2002-10-09
> 04:20:45 Comment By: dbaskerville
> Dear Customer
> Yes you do need to have a splitter/filter on ever socket that there is a telephone connected.
> Regards
>
> 2002-10-09
> 06:40:12 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> Why - when there not ative i.e. when there not ON hook can you explain? Please
> Regards
>
> 2002-10-09
> 07:00:12 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> This ticket has now been escalated as a high priority
>
> 2002-10-09
> 20:30:22 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> Have talked to BT who did a line test - they so no problems so what's next?
>
> 2002-10-10
> 05:23:30 Comment By: pbillingham
> Dear Customer
> There has to be a splitter on every socket with a phone attached else this can cause the interference that you are getting
>
> 2002-10-10
> 07:15:57 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> Why?
>
> 2002-10-10
> 07:25:00 Comment By: stuxford
> Dear customer,
> Please try jsut PC and one phone with splitter into master socket to see if this improves your problem.
> Regards support.
>
> 2002-10-10
> 21:41:16 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> OK I am coming to the same conclusion but I was trying to simply diagnose the problem remotely as I am away from home at the moment.
> I would hate to buy 11 Microfilters anyway and was trying to find the Technical reasons for why you should install filters on everyline even those that are not used on a regular basis.
> That is Sky, Alarm Auto dialler, Caller Display, Cordless Phone, Two PC Modems, and all the other phones (5 in bedrooms etc.) Yep I know about the REN but the ringer has been disabled in all put one and most of the other Units only present a fraction of REN (.2 to.5)
> I would still like to know the reason why even though there mostly On Hook but looks like I am going to have to reslove to Reverse Engineering - and pull the Whole lot apart - should be fun from Canada.
>
> 2002-10-11
> 08:39:19 Comment By: dbuckley
> Dear Customer
> You can use the phone without a filter on, but the filters filter out the background noise caused by the ADSL, they also get rod of the interference your voice and dialtones causes on the ADSL line.
> Using your ADSL without filters can seriously affect the quality of your connection.
> I hope this answers your question, if you have any others please do not hesitate to contact us again.
>
> 2002-10-11
> 14:16:25 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> So are you saying that the phones without filters on should not effect the phones with filters on - the ones that you are actually making the calls on?
> So you should only here noise on the phones without filters on but not on the phones with filters on.
> So you don't need filters on every extension - right?
>
> 2002-10-11
> 16:43:18 Comment By: mjianikos
> Dear Customer
> You need a filter on everything that is plugged into the phone line even if it is on the hook. This is because of the way in which ADSL works on the phone line.
>
> 2002-10-11
> 17:08:06 Comment By: Gary Bolland
> OK,
> Here we go again - I am an Enginner, (frustrated in Canada) I would like to know why? The Technical reasons - can you point me to a technical link. (hyperlink but please no fob off's)
> Because I am currently looking at buying 11 microfilters and I am going to be upset if it is still noisy.
> Mind you I am unlikely to do that and will probably pull all the extensions apart.
> However, I am in Canada and I am not going to ask the girlfriend to pull everthing apart - understand.
> I am trying to use logic and support.
> Please Please Please find someone who can answer the reason why or were going to have the longest Problem ID ever - Trust Me. If if you close this one down - i'll just open another one (PLEASE)
> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE seem real technical support.
> Regards
>
> Garry
> PS. Did I say PLEASE Assigned
>
> 2002-10-12
> 17:47:33 Comment By: dbuckley
> Dear Customer
> I'm providing a link to a site that should help you with the technical side of your query. As for the in depth answer, I can only suggest google.com as your best source of an answer.
>
> 2002-10-13
> 21:06:22 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> Can'y find anywhere that says you haave to fit filters on every phone (even those that you do not use)
> What is the technical reason for fitting filters on every phone? Why should not fitting filters on unused phones effect the noise on used phones?
>
> 2002-10-14
> 04:30:44 Comment By: mjianikos
> Dear Customer
> I would recommend that you contact BT on 151 and ask them. Basically in the training and information that has been provided to us from BT we are informed that a spliter is required for every device that is plugged into the phone line. Therefore I would recommend that you contact BT direct as they will know the exact technical reasoning behind this.
>
> 2002-10-14
> 06:32:44 Comment By: Garry Bolland
> Yer from Canada
> Nice call buddy
> Thanks
> Garry
> PS. Have a nice day!
>
> 2002-10-14
> 06:36:51 Comment By: mjianikos
> Dear Customer
> No problems should you have any further problems please do not hesitate to contact us again.
> I hope I will - cheers!
> Mike
>
>
>
>

I understand the frustration of line noise.. But 11 filters / devices? Assuming an REN of 1 per device...the mind boggles... As I understand the maximun REN on any single phone line in the UK was 4? Miracle it works at all.. No wonder there are probs..

Regards Dave


Garry
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: 05-08-2007

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

> I understand the frustration of line noise.. But 11 filters / devices? Assuming an REN of 1 per device...the mind boggles... As I understand the maximun REN on any single phone line in the UK was 4? Miracle it works at all.. No wonder there are probs..
>
> Regards Dave
>
>
>Thanks for the response the issue was pointing out to PlusNet the potentially costly exercise to resolve 11 devices (which are of between 0.2 to 0.5 - between 2.2 min to 5.5 max - the actual value is less than 4.0) which upto to now has caused no problem.

I was trying to get a simple answer, but PlusNet are saying talk to BT - which I have done, who say talk to your ISP. I was trying to understand the technical reasons for how no filters on unused phones could cause problems with filters on used phones.

PlusNet can offer no technical reason why, as they don't have that level of knowledge (read above), which has taken some considerable emails to finally conclude.

I was trying to generate a response within this Forum to why:

1. How no filters on unused phones could cause problems with used phones with filters on?

Meanwhile I can only second guess and wait to get back from Canada and either add 11 filters (which is expensive and probably won't fix the problem) or start from scratch.

I suppose another question should be:

How many filters can be used on a network (provided you don't exceed the REN) or is there any other limiting factor?

Meanwhile I can only generate some kind of discussion within this Forum until I can solicitate a response or it just falls of the page. (probably the latter - so many thannks anyway)

Either way we pay our money to PlusNet (therefore are contracted to them) but still get told to talk to BT who say talk to your ISP.

N/A

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

Blimey!

Well, firstly yes you *should* have a filter on all the phones. (although you can get away with it if your lucky!)

Basically, one telephone without a splitter can introduce noise to the ADSL signal and degrade the quality of the signal because when the phone is off the hook, it's causing a direct connection between earth A and earth B. When it's on the hook, there is still a link between earth A and earth B (goes to the ringer!)

You don't need 11 microfilters though - you can wire a whole house up with only 1.

1) Run one extension to where your ADSL modem/router is to be used
2) Place a filter into the master socket and connect the ADSL extension to the ADSL output. DO NOT use a phone on that extension.
3) The other side of your microfilter can now be connected to the house extension for telephones/modems/fax/etc meaning you wont need any other filters.

Ok - It does restrict your modem/router to one room but most people only have one room where the computer is installed so works quite well for them

Hope this is helpful!
Mike Holbrough.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,983
Thanks: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

> Blimey!
>
> Well, firstly yes you *should* have a filter on all the phones. (although you can get away with it if your lucky!)
>
> Basically, one telephone without a splitter can introduce noise to the ADSL signal and degrade the quality of the signal because when the phone is off the hook, it's causing a direct connection between earth A and earth B. When it's on the hook, there is still a link between earth A and earth B (goes to the ringer!)
>
> You don't need 11 microfilters though - you can wire a whole house up with only 1.
>
> 1) Run one extension to where your ADSL modem/router is to be used
> 2) Place a filter into the master socket and connect the ADSL extension to the ADSL output. DO NOT use a phone on that extension.
> 3) The other side of your microfilter can now be connected to the house extension for telephones/modems/fax/etc meaning you wont need any other filters.
>
> Ok - It does restrict your modem/router to one room but most people only have one room where the computer is installed so works quite well for them
>
> Hope this is helpful!
> Mike Holbrough.

Agreed.

This is exactly how I have done my ADSL wiring.
Doing it this way means that all devises are passing through the filter (all be it the same one) and are seperated from the ADLSL device.
I have had no problems using this method.

--
Regards
John
http://www.hmrg.co.uk
N/A

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

I note you have a Sky Box in your house. This may cause a bit of interference, splitters notwithstanding. Worth investiagting, although there will be a label on both your ADSL modem and the Sky Box stating something along the lines of "this device may not cause interference and must accept any interference received".

Paul
N/A

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!

> Agreed.
>
> This is exactly how I have done my ADSL wiring.
> Doing it this way means that all devises are passing through the filter (all be it the same one) and are seperated from the ADLSL device.
> I have had no problems using this method.
>
>
> --
> Regards
> John
> http://www.hmrg.co.uk

Yes this is best way and just to make it easy see this website http://www.clarity.it, who sell a replacement front cover for the master telephone box in your house.

Cliff
Garry
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: 05-08-2007

RE: Filters or No Filters - Have a Laugh!


Thanks Cliff

I think the solution below seems the best option.

http://www.clarity.it, who sell a replacement front cover for the master telephone box in your house.

Regards

Garry