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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

I have a problem with setting up audio and video conferences using Windows Messenger. The Messenger A & V connection drops each time I try and no audio or video is transmitted. Searching the web I have found out that I may need a uPnP NAT enabled router. I have an Actiontec R1524 Wireless Router ADSL Modem which works well enough but I can't find any mention in the literature for uPnP - it has NAT, but I don't think it is uPnP enabled.

It looks as though I'll have to replace my modem/router if I want A & V conferencing with Windows Messenger, unless anyone knows a way around this problem.

David
15 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,983
Thanks: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

I don't think there is a way round it? I had to change my router some while ago to one that has uPnP in order to make audio / video work on mesenger.
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

It is possible to use MSN Messenger without UPnP, but it's a pain. MSN Messenger is good, but it's port usage is scrappy and it has a habbit of opening a large range of ports, even though it doesn't need them.

You need to search on google, for the ports required on messenger and port forward them to your machine. This should resolve the problem. If your having problems find them, let me know and I'll see if I can find them.

Try this link as well MSN Messenger Ports , but I'm not sure if it covers the latest version 6.2.

Aaron
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,983
Thanks: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

Hmmm I tried forwarding all the necessary ports to try and make it work.
I even went to the extreme of making one of my PCs a DMZ and open completely to the internet but still no working audio / video.

By the way gadgetboy byenet is talking about windows messenger not MSN Messenger.
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

John, :shock: It should work on a DMZ. I can't understand how you can get it to work using UPnP but not DMZ.

byenet, if you click that link, you should be able to adjust the option to display Messenger ports as well. Shockedops:

Aaron
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

First, enable uPnP on the router.

Next, you need to install uPnP on your local PC.
In control panel, visit "Add & Remove programs", then open the "Add/remove windows components" tab on the left.

Under "Networking services", click Details.
Tick the following two items
1: Internet Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client
2:UPnP User Interface

OK the two windows and XP should do its thing. I would sugesta reboot at this point.

MSN Mesenger should then be able to control & forward the ports needed on the router, and control the standard windows firewall (not any 3rd part software firewall). However, you may find the routers firewall does not get controled by uPnP, thus you may need to deal with that too.
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

why the hell does any one need UPNP.. *pokes his NON upnp router*.. it still lets me use video / audio / helpin some ones desktop etc etc .. all you have to do is NAT the ports to ur PC and it works FINE .

Buz
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

UPnP is quite useful, but does pose a slight security risk.

Following on from Phil's note (acarr), you might need to enable your software firewall to cope with UPnP, as it may naturally block it.

I thought we were talking about Windows Messenger, not MSN ? Both can use UPnP.

Aaron
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

Before I embark on some tests, I need to clarify my configuration. I have two PC's both connected on a wireless network to my ADSL router/modem.

I have Zonealarm free on both. It seems as though Zonealrm does not support uPnP so first of all I suspect that I need to uninstall ZA and enable Windows firewall (SP2). I should also install uPnP support as recommended by acarr.

Finally on my router, I should forward all relevant udp ports for Windows Messenger. Doing a web search, I found this:-

To enable voice and video communications with Windows Messenger through a non-UPnP firewall, configure the firewall to allow incoming traffic on UDP ports 5004 – 65535.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/worki01.mspx#XSLTsection130121120120

Thats quite a lot of ports. And johnessex didn't have success with port forwarding.

The question is whether there is and increased risk associated with opening UDP ports - guess not much. Also I have got quite used to using ZA and don't know whether it is any better than ICF.

David
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

Quote
To enable voice and video communications with Windows Messenger through a non-UPnP firewall, configure the firewall to allow incoming traffic on UDP ports 5004 – 65535.


Not that many ports, that's over half, way to much security risk.

Don't use XP firewall either, it's pretty poor as well.

I've not used zonealarm for a while, can you add detailed packet rules? I can give you the rules for UPnP, I added them to my firewall (Kerio) .

Aaron
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

If I understand things correctly, then by using Windows ICF, it should open and close UDP ports on demand, since ICF supports uPnP. But I would have to forward a wide range of ports on my wireless router modem since this does not support uPnP.

In effect I would be moving the port control from my router to each of my PC's. This is the logic, but whether this will work and make Windows Messenger function correctly for audio and video, I'll have to wait later to test.

David
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

I can see you logic, but XP Firewall is very poor. The firewall is made up of two parts, the first part is an incoming firewall, the second part is an application control process.

Each time an application runs, it requests access to the internet, a bit like zonealarm, except it has no controls over which ports etc it uses, once it has access, it has access to all ports. In addition, it won't stop trojans, viruses etc.

Since you say your router cannot be support UPnP, I see little point in running it. I will research during the day tommorow the exact ports you need to open and whether these can be reduced down, within messenger.

Keep zonealarm, and I'll try and help you find a solution using that.

Aaron
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

MSN Messenger

NOTE: Shut off any personal firewall programs such as BlackIce, ZoneAlarm, etc.
Ports 6891-6900 enable File send,
Port 6901 is for voice communications

IN TCP 6891 - 6900
IN TCP 1863
IN UDP 1863
IN UDP 5190
IN UDP 6901
IN TCP 6901

6891 - 6900 <-- sets how many transfers you can have going at once, set it only to 6891 and you can only send one file at a time.. set it to 6891-6892 and u can send 2 files etc etc
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

Quote

NOTE: Shut off any personal firewall programs such as BlackIce, ZoneAlarm, etc.


Hi, you don't need to disable zonealarm, just allow messenger server rights within zonealarm.

Try adding the ports listed by Buz into your router and see what happens. I'll have another check tonight about the exact ports, since there is no mention of video ports. It's only really Audio and Visual ports that need to be added, file transfer should work without adding extra port forwarding rules.

Aaron
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ADSL Router, uPnP NAT, and Windows Messenger

I just tried Windows Messenger audio and it still does not work. I have open ports 6901 for TCP and UDP only as I was only interested in audio, and not file sharing. ZA is set to allow Windows Messenger to have full access

I wonder if the problem could be a mis-match of some sort between MSN messenger and Windows Messenger?