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router turn off overnight or not

bsanotrun
Grafter
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎20-10-2011

router turn off overnight or not


Hi new +Net customer have been with Cable&Wireless LLU (virgin) for the last few years
I have always had a problem with my line in that the SNM drops drastically as it get dark at night and will drop the connection,  routerstats jpg attached
However C&W dont use DLM as such so after a very low resync at night it was back to normal when i reconnect the next morning in daylight.
So im wondering what is the best way to manage this line now i have the **** BT IP profile to contend with.
thanks
Mike
16 REPLIES 16
Apprentice
Grafter
Posts: 614
Registered: ‎04-11-2008

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Is the router connected to the master socket?
If it is try connecting it to the TEST socket within it and see if you still get disconnections, by using the TEST socket  you shouldn't get any problems from the house/internal wiring.
Have a read of this ....... it can help if you disconnect the bell wires (don't cut them) from all sockets not just the master.
bsanotrun
Grafter
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎20-10-2011

Re: router turn off overnight or not

I have an overhead line which i think is the problem
bell wire had been disconnected for years, and i have a filtered faceplate, have tested with the router plugged into test socket and get exactly the same result come darkness.
Mike
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,634
Thanks: 1,416
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎23-09-2010

Re: router turn off overnight or not

If the connection drops at night you have nothing to lose by switching off the connection yourself.
The general consensus seems to be:-
Router on 24/7 is best.
If you have to switch off then just once a day for a long period is the next best thing.
If you can it is preferable to use the router interface to disconnect before switching off the router.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,049
Thanks: 1,361
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Does your phone line go near any street lights, or do you have security lights on your property that might be generating RF noise. Do you have an AM/MW radio you could tune off-station to 612kHz to use as a REIN detector?
Since this occurs when you are connected to the test socket raising a dropping connection fault at http://faults.plus.net should be considered. It would be useful to add the RouterStats image to illustrate the problem.
David
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎14-08-2009

Re: router turn off overnight or not

To be honest I don't think what is shown on the routerstats image represents a 'fault' as such.
I reckon the OP just has a line whose SNR margin drops a lot a night - such is life
I've seen two lines locally, one drops 1dB at nighttime, the other 3 dB at nighttime - approx same  length of overhead pole run in both cases.
I do think that the op might be right if they have a long overhead multi-pole run this is causing the large drop in SNR - and overhead runs will be more suseptible to nightime interefence (caused by the raising of the heaviside layer in the atmosphere at night)
The disconnections are not faulty disconections from I'm reading in this thread, merely that the SNR has dropped to such an extent that the the router can no longer keep in sync and has to re-synch at a lower value, and each time the SNR drops further the router will reconnect at a lower sync rate. Then come daytime as the BT system is not rate adaptive, the router will not re-sync at the high rate that is now capable of.
My advise is indeed to switch off a night and switch on in the morning - I do anyway as a matter of course and always have done.
(Actually the routerstats trace shows a reasonably stable line in respect of the minute by minute variability of the SNR margin - on mine not only does the SNR margin drop at night but it also varys up/down quite significantly more than during the daytime).
Apprentice
Grafter
Posts: 614
Registered: ‎04-11-2008

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Quote from: bsanotrun
I have an overhead line which i think is the problem
bell wire had been disconnected for years, and i have a filtered faceplate, have tested with the router plugged into test socket and get exactly the same result come darkness.
Mike


In that case it would be best to switch the router off at night, preferably by using the disconnect tab in the GUI for a softer power down.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,786
Thanks: 987
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: router turn off overnight or not

I'd be tempted to force a resync when the noise margin had dropped to around 4db. It would resync at the target which I think will be 9 which will give you a lower sync speed - but hopefully then it would stay in sync and you could leave it on 24x7. At the moment it is resyncing when it drops right away which will give you a much lower sync.
I'd suggest reporting it as a dropping connection - 9db variation is excessive!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
bsanotrun
Grafter
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎20-10-2011

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Hi
thanks for all your replies
x47c
your reply was spot on, i have been turning off overnight now for the last week, and the sync has not dropped drastically, im still only half way through the first 10day period though
Jelv
it would be  more then a 9db drop, if i were to leave router connected it would reconnect and drop again around 3am
so 18db total
Does anyone think that plusnet my take this on as a line fault when the training period is up ??
mike
dick:quote
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,786
Thanks: 987
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Quote from: bsanotrun
Does anyone think that plusnet my take this on as a line fault when the training period is up ??

18db! With that massive variation in SNR? They should!
During the training period it establishes the acceptable speed range for your line. If later it falls below that rate you can report it as a speed fault, so it's in your interests to make sure you engineer things during the training period to make sure your IP Profile is as high as possible - and that will mean turning it off at night (if ever they do a SNR reset to restart the training you will need to do the same again). At the end of the training period check the BT speed test to see what the acceptable speed range is and you then need to run speed tests to prove that you are getting outside that range so leaving it on so it syncs very low should do the trick.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
jojopillo
Grafter
Posts: 9,786
Registered: ‎16-06-2010

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Hi bsanotrun,
Give me a nudge when the 10 days is up and we can get it looked into.
Jojo Smiley
bsanotrun
Grafter
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎20-10-2011

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Oh i would be very happy to do that, Thanks
Mike
dick:quote
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎14-08-2009

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Ah,
If you saying that left alone it would drop 18dB overnight then yes I do think that is grossly excessive and a fault should be raised for it as the plusnet staff member has suggested.
bsanotrun
Grafter
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎20-10-2011

Re: router turn off overnight or not

Quote from: x47c
Ah,
If you saying that left alone it would drop 18dB overnight then yes I do think that is grossly excessive and a fault should be raised

One final question, i read somewhere ( long while ago cant find any reference to it now)
that there is a set percentage drop from a previous steady speed before BT/OR will consider this to be a fault.
true, false, typical Usenet misinfo
Much to my surprise turning the router off (via its control) at dusk and again overnight has not resulted in a plummeting IP profile....yet!

mike
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,786
Thanks: 987
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: router turn off overnight or not

One controlled disconnect per day should not be an issue.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)