i-plate

[#1]

I have re-checked the master socket connections.
The socket is a DES (?) - thats the only thing on  it apart from a serial number. It is connected green to 2 and black to 5 (not 8. Sorry, I miscounted  )
There are no visible components on the back, and the moulding is unlike any of the photographs which  Anotherone posted.
The six terminals are in two blocks of three, the second block being under the first, but displaced.
The extension socket is a double phone one, and is labled LJU5/1A. On the back there is an inductor, a capacitor and a resistor. I use both sockets, one has the router plugged in (via a filter) and the other has the phone plugged in (via a filter).
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Keith

[#2]

It'll be a surge arrestor, not an inductor. Did you follow the link to the kitz site and look at the pictures there?
The one downstairs that you think is a master may very well not be, does it look like any on the kitz site?
One thing is fairly certain, and that is an i-plate cannot be used with this set up, unless this down stairs socket is something we don't beleive it is.
However your wiring (on terminal 3 &4 upstairs) may be causing unnecessary noise to be picked up, but I'm not going to suggest doing anything with it until we are more certain about the socket downstairs.
The only other thing is, you are using two filters upstairs when one will do. If you unplug the phone from the filter it's in and plug it into the one the modem/router is connected to you should find it works OK. Out of curiosity, what filters are they, do they have any identifyin marks?
Finally this sealed box outside, for completeness can you describe the colour and shape of it?

[#3]

Anotherone.
In answer to your questions.
The terminal box on the outside wall is grey. The box itself is 4" wide x 3 1/4" high x 1" deep. The cover is shaped. It is 4 1/2" wide at the top and 5" wide at the bottom. It is 3 3/4" high. The cover has a "T" in a circle at the top and the fastening screw at the bottom.

I am using the standard "T" shaped filters, but I have a spare, which is a 'box with a short cable' type.

Sorry, but my Master Socket is not like any of the Kitz pictures. Assuming that it was insalled when the house was built, it is 23 years old. so perhaps designs have changed?
It is a line box, but the second block of terminals are underneath the top block, but off-set. Thus:
x1
x2
x3
    x6
    x5
    x4
The only moulding is a very small rectangular block above the output socket.
A question, please.
Would it be better to change my 'twin phone socket' extension socket to one having one phone socket and one DSL socket? This would have built-in filtering.
Cheers, and thanks.
Keith

[#4]

Quote from: deekay

The extension socket is a double phone one, and is labled LJU5/1A. On the back there is an inductor, a capacitor and a resistor. I use both sockets, one has the router plugged in (via a filter) and the other has the phone plugged in (via a filter). Hope this helps. Cheers. Keith

What you are calling your extension is in fact a double single line master socket. What does not make sense is that you have orange/white on pins 2 and 5 and on the other socket it's green and black. I can't see how you can use an iplate as you seem not to have a NTE faceplace so I would suggest removing the 2 wires on pins 3 and 4.

[#5]

That point has already been noted itsme. I'd rather not suggest removing them until we know for certain what they are doing.
Hi Keith,
The problem is that the twin socket appears to be "the master" in your instalation, and I'm afraid BT will get very upset if you were to change it.
Unfortunately, those "T" type filters (that look like double adapters) are generally poorer quality than the box with the short cable or "rat's-tail" type.
I'm trying to find a few pictures of what you believe is the master for you to compare.
The grey box outside is a standard box that BT use and it isn't sealed.  If you slacken the screw sufficiently so that the head is just above the lips either side of it, the cover will then slide upwards. The cables inside are normally terminated in silicon filled crimps.
In view of the uncertainty about this socket downstairs, it would be interesting to know which wires are connected to which from each of the upstairs and downstairs cables, but particularly the green and black wires from the Upstairs socket.
Edit: Does your spare filter have any name and numbers on it?

[#6]

I was going to add a bit more to the post above, but thought better do one step at a time.
Although you haven't actually said, I guess you think your speeds are a bit slow. Do you know how to access your modem/router stats?
If not, tell us which modem/router you've got and someone will give you a pointer.
If you have a good connection there may be another silly reason why your speed seems slow.

[#7]

I have looked inside the terminal box (sorry, Doug, I thought it was sealed!) There are four connections.
Main cable black is connected to downstairs orange.
Main cable white is connected to downstairs white.
Downstairs green is connected to upstairs orange.
Downstairs black is connected to upstairs white.
Upstairs green and black are not connected to anything in the box.
Hope this makes sense. It seems so chaotic to me that I have checked and re-checked the connections in the terminal box!
It's good news that the upstairs socket is the master, as I won't have to take the computer downstairs if I have to do any tests.
The spare filter is labelled ACC-107-012. As they are better quality than the "T" ones,  I will get another so that both downstairs phone and upstairs computer/phone are connected via them.
I note that the use of an i-plate won't be of any use.
Yes, I am trying to improve things at this end in the hope that my speeds will get better. I won't go into details here, but think that it would be better to start a new thread.
Cheers
Keith

[#8]

The trouble with older instalations is that when they have bits added, especially when additional cable is going via the outside of a building, they can end up very unconventially wired which is why I've been proceeding with caution. And some engineers can also be a bit unconventional in the way they do things.
Far more often than not, it's possible to deduce what is happenening by looking at internal connections, but that relies on identifying everything correctly. Whilst the upstairs socket is a "twin outlet" master type, it may not be "the" master in one sense.
I suspected that the upstairs green and black wasn't connected to anything,  and as that is now certain, you can disconnect them from terminals 3&4 on then back of the upstairs socket. Gently pull them vertically out of the IDC connectors and then coil the wires neatly and push them to the back of the box where they won't come into contact with any terminal. This should help reduce interference affecting the braodband signal.
(You are allowed to do this, it is fiddling with BT's main wiring they don't like - eg. altering anything in the grey box, or to terminals A&B on an NTE5 Master or terminals 2&5 on any other "main master".
I'm going to mention a tip here, as too many disconnections of modem/routers in a short time can mean the exchange thinks you have a problem and increase the Target SNRM which will result in lower sync speeds (we'll address that in more detail later). Before unplugging the filters, modem/routers or front plates of sockets power down the modem/router and wait a few minutes before unplugging from the line.
It's still best to not do this more than about 5 times within an hour and then best to avoid any more for the rest of the day.
One other important check at this stage ( I had mentioned it before) (also with the router off, perhaps whilst you are doing the wire removal) with the front of this downstairs socket removed so that you can see the green and black wires connected to 2 & 5, the upstairs socket ought to be dead - ie with the phone plugged in upstairs it should be no dial tone etc.
Finally we can talk about your speeds when we've finished with the wiring. It would be best to keep it in the same thread here as the background information is here.

[#9]

EDIT: Having re-read the thread, I have removed my pointless post. 

[#10]

Been watching this thread with interest. Nice work Anotherone.

Quote

Main cable black is connected to downstairs orange. Main cable white is connected to downstairs white. Downstairs green is connected to upstairs orange. Downstairs black is connected to upstairs white.

So if I understand this correctly, BT have wired a single cable to the Master socket downstairs, orange & white for the incoming line. Then used the spare green & black pair ( presumably connected to the removable faceplate ) as the connection to the upstairs extension by connecting these, in the grey box, to the new upstairs extension cable.
Just a tad unconventional!!!
I must admit I had a similar, but slightly different, situation in our house when we moved in ( a long time ago now ). The Master socket was at the rear of the house, downstairs and an extension was upstairs at the front. From the grey junction box, on the wall at the front, a cable ran to the master, with a single pair connected, but in my case a second cable with a single pair connected in parallel ran to the extension. Slightly more conventional I think, and similar to the old style wiring before master sockets. 

[#11]

Quote from: deekay

I have looked inside the terminal box (sorry, Doug, I thought it was sealed!) There are four connections. Main cable black is connected to downstairs orange. Main cable white is connected to downstairs white. Downstairs green is connected to upstairs orange. Downstairs black is connected to upstairs white.

The highlighted downstairs orange and white that need investigating as this colour pair has not be mentioned previously. A picture of the downstairs socket would be helpful. The above make sense if the downstairs socket is the master using the orange/white as the main incoming pair and then the green/black are from the master removable faceplate feeding other extensions.

[#12]

Quote from: MisterW

I must admit I had a similar, but slightly different, situation in our house when we moved in ( a long time ago now ). The Master socket was at the rear of the house, downstairs and an extension was upstairs at the front. From the grey junction box, on the wall at the front, a cable ran to the master, with a single pair connected, but in my case a second cable with a single pair connected in parallel ran to the extension. Slightly more conventional I think, and similar to the old style wiring before master sockets.

I would say that more unconventional because that extension wiring can't be isolated by removing the master faceplate unlike the OP wiring (if I'm correct in my assumption) can be.

[#13]

Quote

I would say that more unconventional because that extension wiring can't be isolated by removing the master faceplate unlike the OP wiring (if I'm correct in my assumption) can be.

You are correct , it cant be isolated but we are talking 27+ years ago, when I guess they just replaced the old jack sockets with a Master & Extension and took the easy way out!

[#14]

The main cable black and white not mentioned before is the incoming underground cable and would only be seen in the grey box. Nothing wrong with that. It's a case of confirming the exact type/role of this downstairs "master"  which appears not to be an NTE5.

[#15]

Intially we only had one orange/white pair mentioned for the upstairs socket, we now have 2 pairs mention for downstairs and upstairs.

Quote

Master Socket (has a "T" inside a circle at the top right): Green to terminal 2 Black to terminal 8 Extension (has "BT" and the piper symbol at the top left): Orange to terminal 2 Green to terminal 3 Black to terminal 4 White to terminal 5

Quote

Main cable black is connected to downstairs orange. Main cable white is connected to downstairs white. Downstairs green is connected to upstairs orange. Downstairs black is connected to upstairs white.