Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
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- Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
23-11-2008 6:30 PM
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2 lo0-plusnet.pte-ag2.plus.net (195.166.128.72) 39.538 ms 42.419 ms 42.911 ms
3 ge0-0-0-504.pte-gw2.plus.net (84.92.4.90) 43.396 ms 43.893 ms 44.823 ms
4 vl23.thn-gw2.plus.net (212.159.4.20) 46.875 ms 50.711 ms 53.082 ms
5 xe-1-1-0-0.lon10.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.78.69) 54.552 ms 62.540 ms 63.025 ms
6 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 159.578 ms xe-4-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.13) 138.048 ms xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 138.784 ms
7 213.200.84.118 (213.200.84.118) 138.773 ms 120.714 ms 110.808 ms
8 pos-0-15-0-0-cr01.atlanta.ga.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.69) 155.798 ms 156.281 ms 156.770 ms
Ping-ing the two successive Tiscali routers gives me:
From London:
$ ping -c 3 213.200.78.69
PING 213.200.78.69 (213.200.78.69) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 213.200.78.69: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=28.9 ms
64 bytes from 213.200.78.69: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=44.8 ms
64 bytes from 213.200.78.69: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=22.3 ms
--- 213.200.78.69 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 22.352/32.040/44.839/9.440 ms
From Germany:
$ ping -c 3 89.149.185.9
PING 89.149.185.9 (89.149.185.9) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 89.149.185.9: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=109 ms
64 bytes from 89.149.185.9: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=106 ms
64 bytes from 89.149.185.9: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=152 ms
--- 89.149.185.9 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 106.659/122.818/152.708/21.158 ms
This is not merely a firewall issue dropping icmp packets. The same happens with tcptraceroute.
Same deal coming back from US to UK:
7 pos-0-4-0-0-cr01.atlanta.ga.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.26) 28.967 ms 30.171 ms 28.506 ms
8 pos-0-4-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.165) 45.953 ms 45.803 ms 44.479 ms
9 xe-2-1-0.chi10.ip.tiscali.net (77.67.68.37) 49.983 ms 51.319 ms 49.974 ms
10 xe-2-0-0.lon20.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.186.85) 143.047 ms 141.404 ms 141.515 ms
Hop 8 is in the US, hop 9 in Germany in just over 5ms and then from Germany to the UK takes more than an additional 91ms!
Any idea why this is happening? Can it be fixed?
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
23-11-2008 6:55 PM
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Never having used a Tiscali consumer connection I don't know what route over their network US-bound traffic takes as one possible reason maybe just load on this particular route I suppose bearing in mind it is Sunday evening, though I'm sure as a transit customer PN's traffic is tagged as high priority but I bet they aren't the only transit customer so contention might be high.
I would expect they keep traffic on their own backbone for a long as possible to save money (and comcast dont appear to be a LINX member so maybe peering in London isn't an option)
I hope you get a response but something tells me if might be just due to time of day I'm afraid.
If you'd like help with running any more tests give me a shout, I'll be happy to help
Edit to add some detail
I'm seeing similar to your results although I'm on a different edge router to you. (tracert run to last router shown in your snapahot in Atlanta
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\Documents and Settings\Admin>tracert 68.56.85.69
Tracing route to c-68-56-85-69.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [68.56.85.69]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 28 ms 31 ms 33 ms lo0-plusnet.pte-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.64]
3 28 ms 35 ms 27 ms ge0-0-0-403.pte-gw2.plus.net [84.92.4.2]
4 27 ms 31 ms 27 ms vl23.thn-gw2.plus.net [212.159.4.20]
5 34 ms 27 ms 27 ms xe-1-1-0-0.lon10.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.78.69]
6 108 ms 109 ms 107 ms xe-1-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net [89.149.185.5]
7 110 ms 119 ms 111 ms 213.200.84.118
8 117 ms 115 ms 119 ms pos-0-7-0-0-cr01.charlotte.nc.ibone.comcast.net
[68.86.85.217]
9 126 ms 123 ms * 68.86.90.190
10 133 ms 133 ms 161 ms 68.85.219.17
11 131 ms 183 ms 131 ms 68.85.210.126
12 134 ms 167 ms 175 ms te-8-4-ar01.bonitasprngs.fl.naples.comcast.net [
68.87.236.101]
13 145 ms 141 ms 137 ms te-8-1-ar02.venice.fl.westfl.comcast.net [68.87.
238.14]
14 133 ms 133 ms 149 ms te-8-1-ur01.northport.fl.westfl.comcast.net [68.
87.238.26]
15 144 ms 135 ms 147 ms te-9-1-ur01.portcharlott.fl.westfl.comcast.net [
68.87.238.66]
16 148 ms 147 ms 141 ms te-8-2-ur01.murdock.fl.westfl.comcast.net [68.87
.238.70]
17 144 ms 137 ms 135 ms ge-0-1-ubr02.murdock.fl.westfl.comcast.net [68.8
7.239.2]
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * *
and a tracetcp gives me
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\Documents and Settings\Admin>tracetcp 68.86.85.69
Tracing route to 68.86.85.69 [pos-0-15-0-0-cr01.atlanta.ga.ibone.comcast.net] on
port 80
Over a maximum of 30 hops.
1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 192.168.0.1
2 33 ms 31 ms 47 ms 195.166.128.64 [lo0-plusnet.pte-ag1.plus.net]
3 30 ms 29 ms 29 ms 84.92.4.2 [ge0-0-0-403.pte-gw2.plus.net]
4 31 ms 30 ms 28 ms 212.159.4.20 [vl23.thn-gw2.plus.net]
5 34 ms 32 ms 32 ms 213.200.78.69 [xe-1-1-0-0.lon10.ip.tiscali.net
]
6 116 ms 106 ms 100 ms 89.149.187.66 [xe-1-0-0.nyc30.ip.tiscali.net]
7 114 ms 100 ms 104 ms 68.86.89.177
8 110 ms 112 ms 116 ms 68.86.85.93 [pos-0-14-0-0-cr01.mclean.va.ibo
ne.comcast.net]
9 Destination Reached in 142 ms. Port closed on 68.86.85.69
Trace Complete.
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
23-11-2008 8:10 PM
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Quote from: techguy
I hope you get a response but something tells me if might be just due to time of day I'm afraid.
Time of day has probably little to do with it, other than general delay across all hops. Here we are talking about an incremental latency between London and Germany which is 19 times greater than previous or successive hops on the route. This tells me something is broken at Tiscali International - which as a Tier 2 provider is probably not acceptable. So, have they stopped paying their bill to VNSL/Sprint, or are they trying to squeeze more than what their current pipes will fit?
I'm going to also try it out early in the morning when both UK & US are asleep and see what I get.
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
23-11-2008 11:00 PM
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Perhaps am reading wrong but looks like Tiscali peer directly with comcast so not sure where sprint come in or does your traffic to these servers usually hand off to sprint?
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
24-11-2008 7:05 AM
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Anyhow, that's not really my (end user) problem. As you say it could just be that they need to reboot a rooter - ha, ha! Can you believe taking down half the Internet every time? I think that at their level they must surely have more advance equipment than this!
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
24-11-2008 11:04 AM
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Is this any use http://www.ip.tiscali.net/
I'd imagine PN can only raise a fault if the problem is directly with their connection to Tiscali as opposed to a Tiscali internal routing issue which is why noone from PN has responded (or they could be on the case and waiting for a response from Tiscali)
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
24-11-2008 11:38 AM
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Quote from: MickKi I am trying to get some work done which involves me connecting via ssh to servers in the US. At busy times the connection becomes painfully slow, like a 5-6 seconds delay from a single keystroke to seeing a response on my terminal.
Are you using default ports for the SSH connection? If not, you might be falling foul of our traffic management platform. You're asking why Tiscali are dropping packets yet all of your traces show 0% packet loss
Quote I tried to troubleshoot it and found out that going from UK to US, Tiscali are more than trebling the delay over a single hop (from London to Germany): 2 lo0-plusnet.pte-ag2.plus.net (195.166.128.72) 39.538 ms 42.419 ms 42.911 ms
3 ge0-0-0-504.pte-gw2.plus.net (84.92.4.90) 43.396 ms 43.893 ms 44.823 ms
4 vl23.thn-gw2.plus.net (212.159.4.20) 46.875 ms 50.711 ms 53.082 ms
5 xe-1-1-0-0.lon10.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.78.69) 54.552 ms 62.540 ms 63.025 ms
6 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 159.578 ms xe-4-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.13) 138.048 ms xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 138.784 ms
Not sure where Germany comes into the picture? It looks to me like the last hop above is a router in Washington? A RIPE IP lookup shows that the IP is registered in Germany but that doesn't necessarily mean it's assigned to a machine there.
Quote Ping-ing the two successive Tiscali routers gives me:
From London:$ ping -c 3 213.200.78.69
PING 213.200.78.69 (213.200.78.69) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 213.200.78.69: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=28.9 ms
64 bytes from 213.200.78.69: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=44.8 ms
64 bytes from 213.200.78.69: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=22.3 ms
--- 213.200.78.69 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 22.352/32.040/44.839/9.440 ms
That looks fine to me.
Quote From Germany: $ ping -c 3 89.149.185.9
PING 89.149.185.9 (89.149.185.9) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 89.149.185.9: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=109 ms
64 bytes from 89.149.185.9: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=106 ms
64 bytes from 89.149.185.9: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=152 ms
--- 89.149.185.9 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 106.659/122.818/152.708/21.158 ms
As mentioned above, that router's based in the states from what I can tell. An average ping of 122ms to a US server isn't particularly unusual.
Quote Same deal coming back from US to UK: 7 pos-0-4-0-0-cr01.atlanta.ga.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.26) 28.967 ms 30.171 ms 28.506 ms
8 pos-0-4-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.85.165) 45.953 ms 45.803 ms 44.479 ms
9 xe-2-1-0.chi10.ip.tiscali.net (77.67.68.37) 49.983 ms 51.319 ms 49.974 ms
10 xe-2-0-0.lon20.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.186.85) 143.047 ms 141.404 ms 141.515 ms
Hop 8 is in the US, hop 9 in Germany in just over 5ms and then from Germany to the UK takes more than an additional 91ms!
Hop 9 is in Chicago not Germany, so it's taking an additional 91ms to cross the pond which is to be expected really.
Quote from: techguy That does indeed look nasty Mick and might be something that PN need to take up with Tiscali
It looks normal to me.
Quote from: techguy I'd imagine PN can only raise a fault if the problem is directly with their connection to Tiscali as opposed to a Tiscali internal routing issue which is why noone from PN has responded (or they could be on the case and waiting for a response from Tiscali)
I don't think we need to raise a fault as I don't think we've got a problem TBH. The OP's pings in general seem quite high mind you, @MickKi - Do you know if interleaving has been switched on for your line?
Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
24-11-2008 11:51 AM
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I do wish providers would come up with a standardised naming convention for the equipment (though didn't exercise my brain enough to work out what it may mean)
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
24-11-2008 9:18 PM
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Quote from: Bob Are you using default ports for the SSH connection? If not, you might be falling foul of our traffic management platform. You're asking why Tiscali are dropping packets yet all of your traces show 0% packet loss
Yes, I've noticed that. I am using non-conventional ports to avoid botnets hammering the servers. On occasions I have noticed increased delays during peak times between the PN gateway and your next router. When it gets really busy the connection hangs completely (like tonight).
Quote from: Bob
Quote I tried to troubleshoot it and found out that going from UK to US, Tiscali are more than trebling the delay over a single hop (from London to Germany): 2 lo0-plusnet.pte-ag2.plus.net (195.166.128.72) 39.538 ms 42.419 ms 42.911 ms
3 ge0-0-0-504.pte-gw2.plus.net (84.92.4.90) 43.396 ms 43.893 ms 44.823 ms
4 vl23.thn-gw2.plus.net (212.159.4.20) 46.875 ms 50.711 ms 53.082 ms
5 xe-1-1-0-0.lon10.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.78.69) 54.552 ms 62.540 ms 63.025 ms
6 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 159.578 ms xe-4-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.13) 138.048 ms xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 138.784 ms
Not sure where Germany comes into the picture? It looks to me like the last hop above is a router in Washington? A RIPE IP lookup shows that the IP is registered in Germany but that doesn't necessarily mean it's assigned to a machine there.
Right, I thought that I should believe the whois results which report Germany, rather than the arbitrary naming scheme that Tiscali might have chosen. If as you say the naming of the router is to be taken at face value then the delay may well be related to the distance to the US. It makes sense.
Quote from: Bob I don't think we need to raise a fault as I don't think we've got a problem TBH. The OP's pings in general seem quite high mind you, @MickKi - Do you know if interleaving has been switched on for your line?
Interleaving has been switched on I'm afraid. I fear that my line will fall apart due to the relatively high number of FECs & CRCs if it were to be switched off.
So in conclusion, the latency during peak times is most likely related to the traffic shaping applied by PN, rather than any other routing issues on the way.
Thank you for your help. I will consider changing ports or . . . or changing ISP!
Re: Why is Tiscali dropping packets?
24-11-2008 10:05 PM
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Depends on the connection capacity too
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