cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Transfer to 21C Network/REIN Problem [RESOLVED]

gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

@Anotherone It has been a long time for myself, as an engineer in the merchant navy I used to do vibration monitoring/analysis on motors/pumps etc so I have a few ideas on what might be causing the problem. At the moment though this is all moot as I have had a reply from PN fault team and they have washed their hands of the problem Sad
Quote
We have tested your line and have been unable to identify issues outside of normal parameters on the line.
I do note that your records are showing some errors on the line, but as these are not exhibiting on the exchange equipment. This makes me believe that the errors on your logs are showing error rates pre-correction. If these minor errors seen are able to be corrected by the equipment, then they will not be having any effect on your service.
I note that you are asking for a REIN engineer to investigate further, however we need for the line to be exhibiting line errors and/or significant drops on the line for our suppliers to be able to investigate, and we are seeing "green" parameters on your line across the board.

I'm not surprised their equipment isn't showing anything, my SNRM is set high to suppress these errors and interleaving is on. As to these errors not affecting my service, I'd consider a 20-25% reduction in speed a considerable effect.
I'm really annoyed that a REIN engineer will not be called out. At the moment PN are quite happy to give me sub standard service while allowing the law to be broken. Sad
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Can you post the current DSL stats and I've give a more detailed reply and suggestions later on.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

New adsl filtered faceplate for the NTE5 box arrived yesterday so that is fitted, plus the firmware has been updated to 10.2.2.B
Current stats:
You are currently connected to gateway ptw-ag04.
This is located in Telehouse West.
-------------------------------------------------
Phone exchange:
    HOLYHEAD
Estimated line speed:
    8Mb (This may vary between 6Mb and 10Mb) - Checked on 2013-04-23 02:54:03
Current line speed:
    10.5 Mb
------------------------------------------------
Download speedachieved during the test was - 9.98 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 10.2 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.63Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
------------------------------------------------
DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 5:17:46
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 888 / 11,563
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 4.60 / 4.93
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.3 / 27.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.4 / 12.0
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 18 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 13 / 157,375
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 24
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 45
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Leaving the Plusnet agent's response aside for a moment, BTw's specs are wide enough  to drive a bus through sideways and even when they've accepted a fault, it can take several SFI engineer & Boost engineer visits, even when the evidence is fairly obvious, before BTw might even consider a REIN engineer - there aren't exactly too many of them.
Which Filtered Faceplate did you get in the end?
Have the fans been running during those 5 hours of uptime on the stats?
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Bought this faceplate from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003H6GUNA/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The fans have been running since 11:00hrs this morning and have only just stopped.
Average error rates over a 24 hour period
24 hours starting 21 Jun 2013 10:51:10
Per second Per minute Per hour  Per day
CRC Up 0 0 0 0
Down 0 0.04 2.34 56.2
FEC Up 0 0.02 1.05 25.2
Down 8.79 527 31637 759277
HEC Up 0 0 0 0
Down 0 0 0 0
ES Up 0 0 0 0
Down 0 0.05 2.90 69.7
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,320
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

I'm not exactly impressed with the Openreach attitude to such issues:
http://www.expect.openreach.co.uk/people-at-home-work/electrical-noise-effects-on-broadband-services...
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

@w23 thanks for the info but as usual openreach are full of bs, on that link you put up :
Quote
Unfortunately there is no current legislation that allows us or the telecommunications regulator (OFCOM) to take action against such faulty equipment.

and yet on this link :http://www.conformance.co.uk/adirectives/doku.php?id=emc
Quote
In the UK the Directive is enforced by the Trading Standards Service and Ofcom. Penalties for non-compliance can include three months imprisonment and a £5000 fine but generally involves a recall and replacement of the affected product.

So how can they claim there's no legislation when a £5000 fine or 3 months imprisonment seems like an enforceable legislation to me
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,320
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Yes, something doesn't really seem to add up.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

This is typical Openreach prevarication to try and avoid having to send out REIN engineers which can be a costly business for them.
@gtowen
When the fans aren't running (ie when your SNRM in not being reduced by the Interference) during the day, can you do a PPP Disconnect and power down for 10 minutes. Power up and don't forget to login and click Connect.
This will give us a completely clean slate of stats so we can see exactly what beneficial effects the filtered plate is having - limited evidence from the modem/router so far suggests it's helping rather. I wouldn't place too much significance on those average stats you posted for the time being, as I indicated previously the figures can vary somewhat, depending on how and when certain errors occurred and I've also found the  figures don't always seem to relate directly to the actual errors.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

ok, one fan is running atm, but I'm not getting any FEC errors, so I disconnected the PPP for 10 mins and then took these stats.
You are currently connected to gateway ptw-ag03.
This is located in Telehouse West
-----------------------------------------------
Phone exchange:
    HOLYHEAD
Estimated line speed:
    8Mb (This may vary between 6Mb and 10Mb) - Checked on 2013-04-23 02:54:03
Current line speed:
    10.5 Mb
-----------------------------------------------
Download speedachieved during the test was - 9.99 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 10.2 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.67Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
-----------------------------------------------
DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 20:38:13
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 888 / 11,563
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 7.24 / 12.35
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.3 / 27.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.4 / 13.8
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 18 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 43 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 13 / 909,311
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 30
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 52
With just the one fan running, maybe I've narrowed the problem even further, but only a REIN engineer can prove it.
I'm also wondering if I should request an SRNM reset, at the moment its fixed at 12db
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Yes you may have narrowed it if things change when the other fan starts up.
However, just dropping the PPP sessions doesn't reset any of the stats figures. The point of dropping PPP first, is that with no active session when you power off the modem/router, DLM sees it as user action, not a random drop of sync. I would not recommend doing it whilst any fans are running, if there is noise being generated and picked up at present, it will result in reduced achievable sync speed (nor anywhere near dawn or dusk or after dark - noise levels will be higher).
An SNRM reset is something to go for WHEN you are sure you have more stable conditions which you certainly can't be at present. You can't get a fault raised to BTw whilst a line is in training, this will limit your options, especially if things got worse.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,320
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

How close can you actually get to either of these extract fans?  You might be able to pick up interference directly with the AM radio, also the AM radio is 'directional', if you turn it so that the ferrite rod inside is pointing towards the source the noise should disappear, at right-angles it should be maximum, do this from a couple of different positions and you might be able to 'pinpoint' the source (though this method may be rather 'hit and miss' depending on what else the radio picks up).
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

@w23 In Reply#65 I posted photos of the fans, fan2.jpg shows the positiom of both fans. The one on the right I can stand underneath and is off atm, the other due to property restrictions I can get to about 7m away. That one is running but I'm getting no FEC errors so I'm assuming the one on the right is the problem. Then again I'm confused myself atm, last few days I've had errors starting from lunch time, today I'm getting nothing, so not sure if it is the fans or something else. I'll just have to watch the FEC errors and when they start check to see if the other fan has started.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Totally confused.com this morning Sad . All last night I monitored the FEC errors and apart from a few spikes the graph was steady at zero. Even weirder when I went outside BOTH fans were running. The only thing I could see on my stats was that SNRM was as high as 14db.
This morning I disconnected the PPP @ 09:45 hrs. Switched off the router @ 10:00hrs and then went out for the sunday papers. Switched the router back on 10:25hrs and took these stats ;
You are currently connected to gateway ptw-ag02.
This is located in Telehouse West.
--------------------------------------------------
Phone exchange:
    HOLYHEAD
Estimated line speed:
    8Mb (This may vary between 6Mb and 10Mb) - Checked on 2013-04-23 02:54:03
Current line speed:
    10.5 Mb
--------------------------------------------------
Download speedachieved during the test was - 10 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 11.39 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.68Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
--------------------------------------------------
DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:03:46
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 888 / 12,914
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 127.35 / 462.24
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.3 / 27.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.1 / 12.1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 6
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
From these stats you can see SNRM has dropped back to 12db, my sync speed has gone up to just under 13Mb/s and my BTw ip profile has gone up to 11.39 Mb/s.
So got no idea what is going on Sad. Maybe if I'm lucky the mysterious noise offender has blown itself up and won't cause anymore problems....... shouldn't have watched the new Oz film last night.... no ruby slippers here.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Oh well, so much for wishful thinking Sad  Whatever is causing the interference was switched on again about 17:30hrs.  FEC errors gone thru the roof again and SNRM dropped and I can't blame the fans this time Sad It really needs a REIN engineer with specialized equipment to track this down.