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Transfer to 21C Network/REIN Problem [RESOLVED]

Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎10-06-2010

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Without special equipment, you could try wandering around with a portable AM radio, listening for any interference that stands out against the background white noise.
See: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Thanks for that, will see if I can borrow a radio from some where. Smiley
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

I just may have got lucky so may need some legal brains if any are available. As I have described previously I live in a town center, behind my house is a small parking area for locals and then the rear entrances to properties. Directly behind me are 2 take aways which have noisy extraction fans out back. At the time my graphs showed a return to normal I popped out back for a cigarette ( my landlord doesn't allow smoking in the house ) and actually heard the fans stop for these business. Now, I need to check tomorrow to see what time the fans start up, but if it is one of the fans causing my noise problems, is there something I can do to prove this and possibly force the owners to get it fixed.
Superuser
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

If you can confirm the correlation, then this needs pointing to BTOR for REIN  investigation.  They should then deal with the matter under interfearance with telecommunications legislation.
Community Veteran
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Aside from your Summer Time correlation being back to front (if it happened at 1800 GMT then it would be 1900 BST) as ejs explained it would be nothing to do with the BT Backhaul or Plusnet networks. My immediate reaction was it was someone arriving home around that time and switching on something like, maybe a TV (plasmas I'm told can be bad) or older Sky box, basically anything with a noisy Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS).
Now, your possible suspicions about equipment at either Take-away is worthy of monitoring, but I'm sort of thinking unless it's something that has only recently started to be faulty and perhaps not doing it every time it's used (slightly unusual), then you need to be thinking a little more about what may have only been switched on the other Friday & Saturday evening and last Friday evening, and has now suddenly appeared on this Wednesday evening. Was anyone (possibly neighbour) away in the week previously, who is currently home mid-week?
As far as trying to track this down a bit more, listening with a MW radio as has been suggested is a good thing to do.
Start with the Radio tuned at around 600kHz (500m in old terms), not on a strong radio station.. Tune up and down around this frequency when your problem is not happening so you can get used to the sounds that you will hear, there will be noise at various frequencies due to general background noise that will be present these days from not only ADSL signals but things like CRT monitors, TV sets etc. These sort of things are generally at a lower level and won't usually cause problems.
Do these initial checks during daytime as there will be increased noise after dark due to increased MW propagation. As your problem seems to have cropped up well into daylight hours that will be helpful as well. When the problem next occurs tune up and down to find strong noise signals that were not present before. Once you have a strong noise signal you can move around with the radio to get some idea of where it's coming from.
Such interference may well be affecting other neighbours' broadband as well, so it might be worth chatting to them to see if they have broadband and are having any problems. Bear in mind that it might even be some of their own equipment causing the problem and they aren't aware, so I wouldn't mention that aspect at this stage.
Whilst it's likely that your problem is undoubtedly worse because of the standard of that cable mentioned earlier, the interference is obviously quite severe and needs to be tracked down anyway.
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

@townman thanks for the info, if I notice the interference and the fans starting at the same time tonight I will be raising a ticket on the matter.
@Anotherone In hind sight one begins to see a bit clearer Smiley. Before I joined PN on the 30th May I was with BT for just over 2 years. During that time I did suffer problems in the evening but put it down to BT's aggressive throttling during peak times. I am an admin on an IRC chat server and quite often I'd be disconnected from the server during peak periods. I thought it was only off the chat server and never noticed whether I was losing dsl connection or not.
I've spoken to a few neighbours who are suffering in the evenings but they like myself are blaming BT. Since neither routerstats or DSLstats will work with the BT home hubs I've asked one neighbour if she can take speed tests before and after the time period. Not perfect but might give an indication.
Otherwise I intend to listen out for the fans to start and see what the graphs look like at the same time.
I've included 2 photos from my bathroom window to give an indication of how close one fan is to the telegraph pole outside.
Community Veteran
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

I doubt just raising a ticket will do the job. As townman well knows from his own experience unfortunately, the standard response to occasional dropped connections is to raise the Target Noise Margin which would hopefully mean the amount of Interference doesn't reduce the margin to zero and hence loss of sync. I say occasional, because it's not happening 24/7.  But as we all know, the downside of higher noise margins is slower speed.
A MW radio is really the way to go so you can say beyond doubt, when "such and such" happens my error rate goes through the roof and I can hear all the Interference on a MW radio. If I take the radio nearer to the "what ever it is" the interference is much stronger. This interference wasn't present before the event and ceases when the offending item is turned off.
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Well I have my radio set to 612Khz so will be doing some investigating this week, then I'll raise a ticket.
Found some interesting reading Smiley
http://www.conformance.co.uk/adirectives/doku.php?id=emc
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Ha, that will keep you out of mischief reading that lot. The problem is getting someone to get the legislation enforced when you find some product that is/has become defective  Sad 
Don't forget to tune up and down to get used to the various noises you will hear that are there all the time (make a written note if need be).
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Lol it is interesting reading. As to enforcing the legislation I believe that would be up to PN to source. I have achieved speeds above 13Mb/s download while I have been with PN but due to this interference my SNRM is high and I'm only getting 10MB/s. This signifies a drop of 20-25% of my lines potential which I am not happy with and would expect PN to rectify as part of the contract between us.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Hi gtowen,
We can certainly raise a fault on that though REIN can be a tricky one to deal with, and won't generally be a quick fix as BT have to deal directly with the owners of the equipment causing the interference. Nontheless it'd still be worth running through http://faults.plus.net so our team can investigate.
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Thanks Matt Taylor, I have now opened a ticket for this problem as the times have increased. With summer season upon us the take away now opens longer hours and the extraction fan causing the problem starts up at 11:00 hrs now and doesn't stop until 23:00hrs. This interference is keeping my SNRM high and download speed below its full potential Sad
As to it not been a quick fix, I am a patient person and have been suffering this problem for the last 2 years and I'd fully expect the owners to be reluctant to do anything, but in the end the law is there to prevent this kind of interference.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

So you've definitely got some correlation between these fans starting and the drop in SNRM. Some DSLStats Noise Margin graphs would be good, you could also attach a couple of examples to your ticket to be forwarded to BTw.
gtowen
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Re: Transfer to 21C Network

@Anotherone yeah I can definitely say the interference starts and stops with the fans. As I have said opening times have changed, sometimes the fan starts 11:00hrs, sometimes 12:00hrs and sometimes 13:00hrs ....... but I can see the drop in SNRM and rise of FEC errors quite clearly. The ticket only seems to allow one attachment so I've linked this thread with its graphs to the ticket so that PN can use the info here. Also if PN requests it I can zip and upload all the graphs for the last few days. Smiley
[Edit]  DOH!!!! just read what I typed lol, have zipped all the dslstats and added to the ticket Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

I wonder what other equipment comes on with these fans - I take it they are extraction fans - even though they are heavy duty things no doubt, I would have expected them to be brushless, but I haven't been involved with any heavy electrics like that for a very long time, so that's guesswork.