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Transfer to 21C Network/REIN Problem [RESOLVED]

gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

There's no items that I know of in the house that were operated in that time span. Gas boiler for central heating and hot water is only used for hot water and only flashes when you turn on the hot tap. There are some energy saving light bulbs but once again, with it been light till late they were not in use during the time frame involved. There is a fridge/freezer and microwave in the kitchen below but again, fridge/freezer is on all the time and the microwave used at meal times which would be between 17:00-18:00 so doubt that is the cause. Otherwise just 1 desktop pc and 2 laptop pc's . There was a binatone cordless phone base station but I've replaced that with a corded phone till this problem can be sorted.

[Background] Moved into this terrace house 2 years ago last April. looking after it for a friend who works away and spends most of his time abroad, only home for the odd week.
When I moved in the internal wiring was a mess and the BTOR engineer wasn't interested despite BT charging me £140 for reconnection. In fact he said he would only change internal wiring if there was a fault. Luckily there was but he would only fit new wiring from the bathroom door to a new master box. I did want the wiring re routed outside but he stated he would have to charge me extra for this. (See photos)
outside photo shows where it enters my property
bathroom1 is just inside on the bathroom windowsill, not a water tight box Sad
bathroomm2 is at the bathroom door
bedroom1 and 2 are my set up
Now I'm not saying this is the cause of the fault, just trying to offer a complete picture so someone might be able to help Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

OMG, this will very much be related to your problem, those prehistoric connector boxes along with the no doubt prehistoric standard of that internal wiring (not CW1308 standard), especially in a damp place like a Bathroom. For the price you were charged you could have had a brand new line installed without any of that old wiring. That Openreach engineer that came was clearly a lazy, sloppy, unprofessional, good for nothing disgrace to Openreach. BT Retail can't be blamed, this is entirely down to Openreach.
Is the Bedroom outside wall, the same wall as the Bathroom?
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

No, the bathroom is an extension upon a kitchen extension. The bedroom window you can see in outside3.jpg and outside4.jpg shows part of the bathroom window on the left. The only new wiring was from the bathroom door connection box to the master box. I wanted the engineer to put a box outside the bathroom window, then follow the wall and flat roof to enter below the bedroom window but he just refused saying he would have to charge me extra....... been unemployed it was bad enough paying the £140 to BT  Sad
I've included photos of the wiring in the connection boxes. I'd love to get this sorted properly and could even probably do it myself nice and neat but only BTOR can legally touch these wires Sad
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Well at least he jelly-crimped the connections, however, just to be sure - Bathroom 4 is Bathroom 1 with the cover off, and likewise Bathroom 3 is 2 with the cover off.
Now I'm not sure what I'm seeing here - Bathroom 2/3 is outside the Bathroom door, and is the cable coming from below the one coming from Bathroom 1/4 by the window? And therefore the cable going upwards from Bathroom 2/3 in the "new" cable going to the master socket?
Can we have a clearer picture of the wires and colours of this cable going upwards, because it doesn't look the correct standard in the pictures you've posted. If my assumptions are wrong, please clarify.
One thing is for certain, from the outside pictures, the bloke was too lazy to put one single external connector box under the eaves and run one new cable around the wall direct into the bedroom to a new Master socket.  I assume you had a new phone number with this line, so it was a new install that was bodged?
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
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Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Bathroom 1 & 4 are on the windowsill where the line enters the property.       White from outside connected to blue....... orange from outside connected to white with blue band
Bathroom 2 & 3 are at the bathroom door (about head height).  Blue from window connected to blue ....... white with blue band connected to orange  ( from window at bottom/to master box at top)
I've added some more photos, excuse the camera shake Smiley
No to the new phone number, was moving number from previous address, but yeah THEY were a lazy bunch........ was a fault on the line then and took 4 of them a month before I had a working line Sad
Unfortunately unless there's a line fault I can't force BTOR to come back and fix this properly and requesting a new line is not financially viable atm.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Those connections were clear enough, it was the colours of this "new" wire I was interested in, especially the wires not connected, they look like a brown and a green, and the colours in that particular cable are all solid colours -  correct? - This is old standard cable, not twisted pair. I'm wondering what sort of fiddle this bloke was on.
The correct standard (CW130Cool is that coming from the window-sill to the bathroom door. It can be 2 or 3 pair (or more) - Pair 1 is Blue+white trace & White with blue trace; Pair 2 is Orange with white trace & White with orange trace; Pair 3 (when present) is Green with white trace & White with green trace.
Shame it was 2 years ago, but I still think there's a good chance of getting something done.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
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Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Cable from outside is 4 core, solid colour, black, white, green and orange
Cable from window to door is 6 core, 3 pairs, orange and banded orange, green and banded green, blue and banded blue
New cable from door to master box is 4 core, solid colour, blue,green,orange and brown
tbh I've been tempted to yank the cable outside, claim a line fault and blame it on burglars lol, but I'd probably end up having to pay for it anyway Sad
At least for the moment I have some semblance of a working internet Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

That would not be the best way to do it, you probably would have to foot the bill. I'll suggest a few ideas later. Yes I could see the cable from outside was standard CW1411 drop-wire.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
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Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Had my first dsl disconnect for 3 days this morning so things are looking up, still not sure though if last weekends fiasco was due to this "transfer to 21C network" or not. The reason I question this transfer is because stats from 2nd June show an upload/download of 1,256/16,015 which suggests my upload was uncapped thenand I believe from other posts the upload can only be uncapped if you are already on the 21CN.
Here are this mornings stats,  FEC errors seem to be quite high, not sure whats causing them as nothing has been touched since I put the home hub on.
You are currently connected to gateway ptn-ag03.
This is located in Telehouse North.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Phone exchange:
   HOLYHEAD
Estimated line speed:
   8Mb (This may vary between 6Mb and 10Mb) - Checked on 2013-04-23 02:54:03
Current line speed:
   10.8 Mb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Download speedachieved during the test was - 10.23 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 10.68 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.29Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 2:55:50
Downstream 12,104 Kbps
Upstream 888 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.5
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 12.1 dB / 15.6 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 26.0 dB / 14.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 0.0 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 301 / 4294967264
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / N/A
HEC Errors (Down/Up) N/A / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 0
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

You were definitely on 21CN before, no doubt about it, you wouldn't have got the download speeds that you had on 20CN in any case.
Ignore the FEC errors they don't get reset on a resync, apart from which Thomsons seem to count them up for nothing better to do.
I will get back to you later on this wiring - I haven't forgotten.
Edit: Also DLM must have turned on quite a high level of Interleaving on the Upstream as the speed has been restricted to 888kbps.
Can you keep a note of which Gateway you are on on as well and whether if it changes when there is an 'event'  ?
gtowen
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Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
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Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

@ Anotherone thank you, I realise you have other concerns and I appreciate your help. I'd just like someone from PN to address whether work was done on the line over the weekend so I can eliminate that reason from the equation. At the moment I'm still left with the TG582n with new firmware, the filter or the cable between them that was the cause of the errors. While the home hub works it's not possible to get any useful stats from it to diagnose these problems and would like to put the TG582n back in play if possible Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

I was going to suggest going back to the TG582n, but I was also going to say that when you are running DSLstats, it's not worth posting (or plotting IMHO) the CRC & FEC graphs as there seems to be a bug in the values, they don't seem to relate to real-time occurrences nor can I relate them to anything in the stats, whether this is just a problem with the current version, I don't know, as I hadn't tried the previous ones. Posting flat-line sync graphs with no change is not useful either.
The Average Error rate table is quite handy too, but note that the averages can change throughout 24hrs, so I've been saving the table at the end of periods when the rate has been low and at the end of periods when it's high. BUT if you use the <Save error text> button, rename the file immediately after, because the next save overwrites the file rather than append to it. Otherwise use the <Copy to clipboard> and paste it to a file of your own choice.
The Bitswap graphs are handy as are obviously the SNRM graphs, the Bitloading graph before and after a sync drop would be useful as well as any speed graph showing the sync change.
Unless you have an Open Fault ticket at the moment with some planned action by BTw, I would say it's virtually impossible for Plusnet to find out if there was any work going on that might have directly affected your line. Is there any FTTC work going on in your area?
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Ok thanks for the reply, at the moment there is no FTTC at all in my area, in fact according to the OpenReach website my exchange is under evaluation so it might be a few years yet. I haven't opened a ticket as I wanted to make sure it wasn't my equipment causing the errors.  As for any work been done, the transfer to 21CN was supposed to be completed by midnight on the 8th according to Service Notice #163224040. Since I was already on 21CN I was merely wondering if anything was actually done that might be a cause for the errors.
I've noted your advice on which graphs to take note of and the Average Error Rate table. So I will disconnect now, leave for a few minutes then power down the router. Should I leave it an hour before starting up again....... I don't want my speeds dropping any further.
Thank you
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Leaving it for an hour should be fine, but DLM can do strange things especially when seeing high error rates, but what should happen and what does are not always the same. I think as you've already had a drop this morning I would leave it for an hour and keep your fingers crossed.
gtowen
Rising Star
Posts: 379
Thanks: 13
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Transfer to 21C Network

Back on line, DSLstats running and set for 2 hour snapshots for now, latest speed test shows my download ip profile has nudged up slightly  Grin
You are currently connected to gateway ptw-ag04.
This is located in Telehouse West.
--------------------------------------------------
Phone exchange:
    HOLYHEAD
Estimated line speed:
    8Mb (This may vary between 6Mb and 10Mb) - Checked on 2013-04-23 02:54:03
Current line speed:
    10.8 Mb
--------------------------------------------------
Download speedachieved during the test was - 10.27 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 11.05 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.74Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
--------------------------------------------------
DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:26:08
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 888 / 12,523
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 21.67 / 44.43
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.3 / 27.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.1 / 11.9
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 7
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0