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Super random connection speeds

MisterW
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 14,572
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Super random connection speeds

Quote
We've got loads of extensions, i can count 8 off the top of my head

Why ?. Can you imagine all that wiring,  sockets next to mains wiring I guess, all that possibility of noise pickup!!!.
No wonder it's so different when all that wiring is disconnected.  Smiley
I think you need to review what sockets you actually need and to see if the others can be disconnected easily.
Finding out how the wiring is arranged is perhaps the first task?

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pierre_pierre
Grafter
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Super random connection speeds

is Sky on one of those?
jelv
Seasoned Hero
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Super random connection speeds

8 extensions!  Sad
Using the master socket (not the test socket) could you do a check please. Go round the house and make sure there is absolutely nothing plugged in to any telephone socket (not even a filter). Now just check the router stats (a speed test will tell us nothing). Are the stats similar to when you were in the test socket or the worse statistics you got before unplugging everything?
If the answer is close to the test results it means that either one of you filters or something you have plugged in is causing the problem. By plugging things in one at a time and checking the stats after each (you need to look for a significant drop in noise margin and/or sync speed) you should be able to identify what it is.
If unplugging everything hasn't improved the results it is definitely the wiring.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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AdamR
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-05-2009

Re: Super random connection speeds

Quote from: MisterW
Quote
We've got loads of extensions, i can count 8 off the top of my head

Why ?. Can you imagine all that wiring,  sockets next to mains wiring I guess, all that possibility of noise pickup!!!.
No wonder it's so different when all that wiring is disconnected.  Smiley
I think you need to review what sockets you actually need and to see if the others can be disconnected easily.
Finding out how the wiring is arranged is perhaps the first task?


I've not idea why - its not actually our house (rented) so i'm a bit nervous of going about fiddling with the wiring.
In theory the only extension we need is in the master bedroom as that's the only location in the house where there is decent wireless reception for all the rooms - there isnt really a need for the others.  Looks like i could be leaving it in the test socket for the forseeable future!  Wink
Jelv - Will so that when i get home tonight.  I've tried it before to aid stability (and was asked to do it by PN support) but dont remember it making a difference.  Will certainly try though!
jelv
Seasoned Hero
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Re: Super random connection speeds

One thing you could consider is to have the router at the master socket and then run a Cat 5e ethernet cable to a Wireless Access Point (example) positioned where needed to get the best reception around the house (long ethernet cables are no problem). Possibly with a cordless phone base (and an additional handset) also attached to the filter in the test socket you could run permanently off the test socket.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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AdamR
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-05-2009

Re: Super random connection speeds

That's current set-up, minus the AP. Is there any salt in using a wireless range extender, as opposed to an AP or will that just increase latency?
jim:quote
MisterW
Superuser
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Re: Super random connection speeds

Quote
've not idea why - its not actually our house (rented) so i'm a bit nervous of going about fiddling with the wiring

Ah, sorry didnt realise it was rented, as you say not a good idea to be fiddling with wiring.
Quote
Is there any salt in using a wireless range extender,

Stick with the Cat5 as Jelv suggested , wireless extenders will increase latency and reduce throughput.
If the Cat5 is obtrusive you might consider a HomePlug networking over the mains solution.

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Anotherone
Champion
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Super random connection speeds

@AdamR
As you rent out a room in the telephone exchange (please note guys), (never mind the house), this should be relatively easy to resolve without going to the expense of Cat5e Cable and AP's, Homeplugs or whatever.
As has already been suggested, what is plugged in where and finding out how the wiring is arranged is the first task and I cannot stress enought that everything must be done in a methodical manner, only one change at a time, otherwise you could go round in circles.
Sky has been mentioned, if you have sky or any similar boxes they MUST be plugged in through a filter, don't be fooled by what is on the end of a sky lead - it's NOT a filter. With the wiring itself, as long as you don't go round cutting anything, you won't do any permanent damage or anything that is not undo-able.
Has your connection dropped at all since you've been plugged into the test socket? I suggest that whilst you are connected to the test socket, you go round first and check that every other socket is dead and absolutely nothing is plugged in either. Then take a set of Router Line Stats, then replace the faceplate and plug into the master and the immediately take a new set of stats. Are they significantly different ie noticeably lower syncspeed or noise margin? If they are, as jelv has already said it will be a wiring problem.
Then do as jelv has suggested, go round and plug one item at a time in (and have only one plugged in at once) and look for any change in Noise Margin or Sync immediately after plugging an item in.
Post back the results at this point, in case there is anything obvious to comment on.
jelv
Seasoned Hero
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Re: Super random connection speeds

Quote from: AdamR
That's current set-up, minus the AP. Is there any salt in using a wireless range extender, as opposed to an AP or will that just increase latency?

The point of using a WAP connected via a ethernet cable is that it won't affect performance. Every time you go across a wireless link you will affect performance (particularly latency) and increase the chance of errors. If you are in to gaming or anything else where latency is important the order of preference would be wired, then homeplug and a long way last wireless. (For example I do consultancy for two different people using different VPN software which can't co-exist on the same PC, I therefore have one of them on my wife's PC upstairs. I currently have a Cat 5e cable trailed up the stairs because using wireless the VPN kept dropping out).
If you need wired connections upstairs I would suggest:
-----Downstairs------------                 -----------Upstairs-----------------
Master---Router+----------------------------Switch+------- WAP-+-Wireless PCs
Socket        +---Wired PC 1                    +------- Wired PC 2
              + Wireless PCs                    +--------Wired PC 3

The switch is a standard ethernet switch which you can get for around £5
With this arrangement your router would be providing wireless networking in one part of the house and the WAP for the rest (make sure they are on different channels!). You should be able to optimise the position of the router and WAP to give good coverage all over the house.
DHCP (if you don't have static IPs set) should be only enabled on the router.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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Anotherone
Champion
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Super random connection speeds

The point I was making John is that his "normal" arrangement suits him fine other than the sync drops and resultant lower sync. He's that close to the exchange it should be a trivial matter to sort, even with 8 extensions! Why complicate things if not necessary.
jelv
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 26,785
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Super random connection speeds

He'd said that the router was upstairs because he'd found that that gave the best wireless coverage around the house. Putting the WAP upstairsas I suggested addresses that issue if the that is important. Adding in the switch would (for very little extra cost) give him much improved latency if he also needs that upstairs. All this without touching the telephone wiring in what is, don't forget, a rented house.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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Anotherone
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Re: Super random connection speeds

As I've said as long as he doesn't cut anything, so what. That's his choice.
jelv
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Re: Super random connection speeds

However competent you and I are, I'm always a little nervous of recommending to people to start removing wires etc. when I have no idea of their ability to follow the instructions - especially when they are in a rented house!
My suggestions are totally risk free and he can take it all with him when he moves out and reuse or sell the equipment if he no longer needs it.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
AdamR
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-05-2009

Re: Super random connection speeds

Guys - i'd be fine with removing wires etc however, the house isn't rented in my name, and even though it would be no problem to do, my mum (who is named on the agreement) would be nervous of any messing around with the wiring.  Its also a simplification matter, with the only extension needed being the one in the master bedroom so there is signal covering the annex and the other end of the house.
I will test the wiring i.e. check stats in test and master socket with everything unplugged, and if there is no difference i'll move on to checking individual pieces of equipment/filters.  If it does turn out to be a wiring fault i'll just leave the router plugged in to the test socket and figure out a way to boost the wireless signal, be it by WAP or just sitting on my stairs when i use the net!
Oddly enough there are network points throughout the house but all the cabling runs to a cupboard upstairs and just stops - it's not even terminated.
I think the house was a rushed job!
AdamR
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-05-2009

Re: Super random connection speeds

OK - in test socket:
Link Information

Uptime: 1 day, 2:54:58
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,520
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 3.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11.5 / 22.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.0 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 1,351
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 1
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1
In master with everything unplugged:
0 days, 0:00:09
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4,000
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11.5 / 25.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 16.0 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
Wiring issue then?