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Still having Speed Profile issues...

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Grafter
Posts: 56
Thanks: 5
Registered: ‎29-01-2011

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

Just checked my router page and plusnet altered my connection 7 hours ago and my current profile is now 1,279up/21,056Down. Back to around where it always used to be.

The SNR is 6.6/6.0. 

When I spoke to that engineer guy on the phone last month I think he mentioned at that time they were aiming for around 6.

As to the phones causing any interference: no there is no interference and no correlation between drop times and the phone being used. Neither in receiving or making calls and no close timing to the previous drop outs. As I've said many times to many different people the phones do not appear to be a problem.

Until the line was adjusted this morning I had had no drop outs for nearly 7 days. Obviously I'll be keeping an eye on my connection and if I have further trouble I'll get back in touch with plusnet.

To be honest that's the best way for me rather than worrying about things I don't fully understand. I have enough stress in my life at the moment without trying to understand new stuff which I've already been told isn't an affecting issue and not something that I am or aren't doing with my set-up. So far plusnet have been great and fast in dealing with my concerns, going right back to a month ago. I'll continue to trust in what they're doing and what they've been seeing when testing and monitoring my line. They have all the facts on my account beyond what my router page is saying. Smiley

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Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 15,936
Thanks: 6,387
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

@VictoriaIceni,

Well the good news (for the moment) is that the stats you have reported are at the values I would expect.  If they deteriorate from here, you have two choices - accept that Plusnet's resolution might be to 'slug' the service to maintain stability by increasing the SNRM and / or switching in interleaving or identify why the DLM has been aggressively managing your line.

This can be down to a multitude of issues, for example from a line fault (possibly an intermittent one) which PlusNet's tests cannot identify / locate or local interference which can come from nearly any electrical appliance.  Whilst to the best of your belief nothing has changed, you cannot be certain that the power supply of an existing piece of equipment has not deteriorated.  I've seen this all too often.

Plusnet are not able to monitor the transient changes in your router stats.  The problems you might be looking for only need to be transient to cause the link to drop and the DLM to become aggressive.

Such considerations are sometimes beyond the experience of front-line PlusNet support staff - in this aspect @Pettitto is somewhat different; he has a massive experience with such issues, but he is not part of the support channel - he has dropped in here to assist the normal support process.

Do keep an eye on those SNRM and synch figures and report back if they change significantly.

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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 450
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

 

Hi @VictoriaIceni. I've just read all of this thread, and it's certainly a little baffling as to why it appeared that you are still having an ongoing problem. It's always possible that it might be some sort of intermittent issue (as townman mentions), and by that very nature can sometimes be troublesome to track down which is why eliminating all the obvious things is always a good approach, most of which appears to have been done. However, should there be a need "to slug" the service as townman phrases it, that does indicate that something is still not right or as it was, but that is something that only time will tell.

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of the basics based on your remarks in earlier posts, but there is possibly some clarifications worth mentioning.
If you've had a change of sync speed - connection to the exchange (for whatever reason) then this means the IP Profile changes which at some later point (sometimes much later) results in an update to Plusnet's Current Line Speed. This is usually accompanied by a drop in the PPP session when the update takes place.
As you've probably deduced a very occasional drop in the PPP session is often of no consequence (can be maintenance somewhere on the network - usually in the early hours), it's any drops in the DSL that are often the cause for concern.

As townman mentioned, internal wiring can have a significant impact on broadband performance. It is rare for Plusnet to "check on" internal wiring, if your modem/router is plugged into the master socket, they tend to ignore it.
Whilst things may not have changed from your perception, other factors can change and faults can occur - your external line for example as you've experienced!
You mentioned a "daisy" chain extension for two phones upstairs. From the way you phrased it, this extension is not hard-wired to the master socket, but a plug-in type - but I wasn't 100% clear on where/how it was plugged in, and that can be crucial.
If your filter is plugged directly into the master socket, and your main phone and this extension is plugged into the filter then that is fine.

The only other thing I hadn't seen mentioned is the filter itself. If you haven't changed it at any point since your fault arose, if problems continue, then it would be worth changing it just to eliminate that possibility. Filters don't often go faulty, but they can.
But when it comes to swapping things like that, or indeed doing anything that involves the loss of sync, don't just unplug the modem/router from it, or it from the line (without getting too complicated) just power off the modem/router and then wait about a minute before disconnecting from the line.
It's often wise to stay off-line for about 15 minutes, before connecting up again

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Grafter
Posts: 56
Thanks: 5
Registered: ‎29-01-2011

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

No idea what DLM is....'something' line management?? I understand more about things than I used to, but I still don't understand a lot of the jargon or what it's supposed to mean and in what way. So you might as well be typing Russian. Grin

As to electrics, there is nothing else plugged in near to the router and not plugged into the same power socket. The router is nowhere near any other appliance...I can safely say it's over 6 feet away from any appliance. And three months ago our housing association had a routine electrical check-up for the entire house. An electrician tested every single socket, light and other power switch in the house and all were fine, so there's no electrical issue with where it's plugged in etc. 

So far plusnet have not suggested a new router. I did ask if that was what I needed and so far the answer has been no and not thought to be the issue. Whereas a couple of years ago, that was what I needed.

Even at the lower speeds it was good enough to watch online TV, so if that is the end result I could live with it, if I had to...if that is the simplest plan to solving it. Not being in good health and not dealing with any stress very well, I just want the easiest solution, and if that means compromising then we'll get to that if/when we get to it. I shouldn't be too disappointed if my line can only hold 13-16Mbps to stay stable as friends in nearby villages can hardly get 2Mbps. But hopefully something will work to give me the maximum my line is supposed to give. It sounds like there's a few options for tinkering with my line before looking at other methods. I should also add that on the slower profile the ping was around 35-40ms, since the reset this morning it's back to 15....no idea what it means, other than lower is better, and 15 was around what I always used to get from speedtest readings on my usual faster profile.

Plusnet only reset the line this morning; last time it was 4+ days before it flicked to that slower profile again, so it's too early to say what's happening since the reset. So for now let's give plusnet a chance to solve this. I'll definitely check my router stats regularly to keep an eye on any changes, though. Thanks. Smiley

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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 450
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

DLM is the exchange automated 'Dynamic Line Management' Wink

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Grafter
Posts: 56
Thanks: 5
Registered: ‎29-01-2011

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

Thanks @Anotherone Thumbs_Up

You've made a couple of things much clearer for me. Sorry I didn't see your post before I replied to townman. Smiley 

Yes, the daisy chain set-up for the phones is how you said was best, plugged into the main phone so it's all plugged into the one filter from the master socket with the router with no internal hard-wiring for the extensions.

I changed the filter to the other new one I had (that came with this router TG582n) when I first had trouble last month.

Because of the ongoing speed profile issues, even with the occasional drop out when that happens I haven't restarted the router or disconnected since last month. The connection has usually come back by itself. The initial fault I had last month kept flicking the internet light on the router to red. That doesn't seem to be happening now, but I was getting a DSL drop out then coming back with the slower profile...it's happened 2 or three times since the fault was supposedly rectified, and twice after the upload was supposedly uncapped. I'm able to see if it's a total DSL drop due to the time and days 'up time' on my router page...so I'll keep an eye on that. Until the reset this morning my DSL had been up for nearly 7 days...so although slow it was stable-ish.

I'm playing the patient and observant game for the time being and keeping my fingers crossed this time. Smiley 

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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 450
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

I can fully understand you wanting the easy solution and minimal stress. If it comes to Plusnet having to tweak the line settings to get it stable under current circumstances, it might be possible to succeed in doing that with Interleaving off and a raised Target SNRM to achieve a reduction in errors should you want the lower ping times - for gaming for example.

Just to give you a better understanding of the potential electrical/electronic issues that can occur, it doesn't have anything to do with whether your electric circuits/sockets/switches themselves have passed all the relevant tests, nor indeed whether any potentially "problematic" equipment is within 6 feet.

To try and keep the explanation simple, any equipment that's connected/plugged in can go faulty/deteriorate over time and start producing "noise" - a more generic term that covers any potential interference to the ADSL Broadband signal.  ADSL frequencies cover parts of the LW and MW radio bands.
One of the most common sources of "noise" which usually affects longer lines for example - yours is quite short - is the increased MW radio propagation between dusk and dawn. You may have noticed the increased number of foreign radio stations that you can get on a MW Radio after dark. A faulty line for example can be more vulnerable to this sort of noise.

Certain types of electrical/electronic equipment produce some noise anyway, fluorescent lights is just one example, it's a case of how much. By design, modern equipment has to comply with certain standards. Sometimes equipment that goes faulty can produce significant noise over the ADSL range of frequencies well in excess of any standard. One of the worst examples was some older Sky Boxes where some components in their power supplies deteriorate and the boxes can then radiate interference over some significant distances. I remember one example where someone discovered one in a neighbouring house some 200m away!

I very much doubt whether you are suffering anything like that based on what you've reported and the now current stats. It's just to give you examples of what we mean by this sort of noise/interference. One must also mention the audible noise you might hear on a line which would usually indicate a line fault that would also affect the broadband.

I notice from some of your previous postings, you've glanced at your Event Logs. Whilst you are logged in having a look at Stats, you could have a quick look at the Event Log. Keep an eye open for such things as 'Kernel Cold Restart' and 'Kernel Warm Restart'.
The former indicates some sort of power glitch/interruption or power has been off and  this is when it's turned on.
'Kernel Warm Restart' means something has caused it to Reboot. This could be a manual event or some spurious event. If the latter and they ever start occurring frequently, then some form of more detailed investigation would need to be done.

I could go one and explain a lot more, but I don't want to exceed what you might wish to understand or learn and hope I haven't already rambled too much or indeed in Russian!
But if you ever want to understand more, don't be afraid to ask, we can always try and explain.

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Grafter
Posts: 56
Thanks: 5
Registered: ‎29-01-2011

Re: Still having Speed Profile issues...

Thanks @Anotherone My Russian is getting better. Grin I truly appreciate the trouble you and townman have taken to look into my issue and explain things.

 

When checking the DSL with my router I do have a look at the event logs, but even with the frequent faults of last month I don't remember seeing anything flagged with words like 'kernel', just the usual DSL linestate up or down and the PPP link thing. But I'll make a note of what you've written for future reference. I have a notebook especially for this kind of thing. I also keep an event diary list of activity to know when things happen and if there's a pattern to any drops.

 

So far the phoneline has been crystal clear(tempting fate!) and the quiet line test has always been fine at different times of the day as well.

The only time I ever remember our line having trouble(tempting fate again) was several years ago when the line crackled for a day or two and then went dead and it turned out earwigs had got into the little outside wall box and chewed through the wiring, according to BT this was common. Shocked We then had a more modern box installed outside, so hopefully earwigs are not a problem now.

Anyway, thanks again and I'll monitor the situation. Thumbs_Up