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Spam!!

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Grafter
Posts: 350
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎25-01-2008

Spam!!

i keep receiving explicit spam about the size of my winkle!! my first question is 'How do they know???' and secondly how do i stop it.
i keep adding sender to block senders but the next time i download new mail they are there again.
if its not about my winky, its about the natwest bloomin bank.
i think its on my yahoo accounts so should i refer it to them, or can pn block them
any suggestions
cheers
andy
[ps i mean how to stop the spam, not about the size of martin2006 junior]
Shocked
16 REPLIES 16
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Community Veteran
Posts: 4,729
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Spam!!

If you are missing out of the watch offers, I can forward so of those too.
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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,640
Thanks: 2,489
Fixes: 35
Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Spam!!

Are these messages correctly addressed to you with the correct email address? or are they getting to you with a corruption of the address?  I used to get about 30 a day from my previous ISP, and those that were correctly addressed I used to put a "block sender" on. However. the on`s that were incorrectly addressed. I returned to the ISP, on the grounds that these messages were not addressed to me, nor intended for me, and I reasoned that as the ISP was the "delivery agent" then wrongly addressed mail should be returned  to the "delivery agent"..... If you get mail addressed to someone else through your letter box, you are legally required by law to return it to the delivery agent (royal mail) it surely follows that email is covered by the same rules.....After about three months of TISCALI getting these "bounced" emails, they threatened to put me on their spammers list ! ! !...... I was going to migrate to somewhere anyway, and here I am..... by the way..... I do not get any spam now..... Grin
Hint... remove your email address from ANY forum lists, particulary YAHOO as that is where they get the address from in the first place.....
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Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Spam!!

Shutter Tut Tut, you should know that a lot of spam comes with forged addresses, its not unusual to get spam apparently from yourself, the address on this ISP is don'[t bounce e-mail as that lets the sender know that you are a live address, just "ignore" them and post as an attachment to spam@spamtraining.plus.com
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Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Spam!!

The return address WILL NOT BE the original sender but a spoofed email address. All you are doing in bouncing the email is adding to the spamming and sending the spam to another destination.
Spam should NEVER be bounced and reporting it to the ISP will make little difference as you don't know what ISP it came from.
There is very little you can do about spam. PN are doing their best to identify it and stop it getting to you but no system is 100% accurate.
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Community Veteran
Posts: 26,786
Thanks: 987
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Spam!!

Quote from: shutter
Hint... remove your email address from ANY forum lists, particulary YAHOO as that is where they get the address from in the first place.....

I'd heard that old wives tale as well so about 18 months ago I started setting up a separate email address and mailbox exclusively for use with Yahoo groups - that way if I ever did start getting spam I could blackhole it and change to a new address. Guess which mailbox has never had a single item of spam!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,640
Thanks: 2,489
Fixes: 35
Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Spam!!

Shutter Tut Tut, you should know that a lot of spam comes with forged addresses,
that were incorrectly addressed. I returned to the ISP, on the grounds that these messages were not addressed to me, nor intended for me, and I reasoned that as the ISP was the "delivery agent" then wrongly addressed mail should be returned  to the "delivery agent"..... If you get mail addressed to someone else through your letter box, you are legally required by law to return it to the delivery agent (royal mail) it surely follows that email is covered by the same rules.....
Only about 2% of the spam I received had my correct email address, the remainder 98% had a corruption of it for example if my email address was blackbeard @ Tiscali  etc..... I would get emails addressed to BLACKbird blackboard blandford or any word beginning with the first two letters of my email address, which when you consider how strict the ISP`s are about telling you "that address is already in use, please choose another one" makes you wonder..
The whole point of sending them back to TISCALI was because they were NOT ADDRESSED TO ME and, they were not doing anything about the spam. (unlike Plusnet who have a positive approach to the subject)....
The other point is that if you get "junk" mail or incorrectly addressed mail through your letter box, it is your legal right to return it to the post office for their action..... that`s what I was doing with the emails..... TISCALI was the postmaster sending it to me, so I returned it to them.....
I know that the "originating" address was probably false, but then so may all the "Junk"mail and incorrectly addressed mail..... how am I supposed to know? Legally it should be returned to the postmaster delivering it for them to sort out.
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Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 14,187
Thanks: 1,780
Fixes: 136
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Spam!!

Quote from: shutter
Only about 2% of the spam I received had my correct email address, the remainder 98% had a corruption of it for example if my email address was blackbeard @ Tiscali  etc..... I would get emails addressed to BLACKbird blackboard blandford or any word beginning with the first two letters of my email address, which when you consider how strict the ISP`s are about telling you "that address is already in use, please choose another one" makes you wonder..

This is one of the pit-falls of having a 'catch-all' address ie. one that collects email irrespective as to what comes before the '@' sign. I'm not sure how Tiscali's mail platform works but I'd have thought that they'd have had some means of switching this functionality off. Another possibility is that the To header was different to the x-envelope-to header. Just because your email client says an email was addressed to blandford@ doesn't mean it actually was.
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The whole point of sending them back to TISCALI was because they were NOT ADDRESSED TO ME and, they were not doing anything about the spam. (unlike Plusnet who have a positive approach to the subject)....

They were addressed to your mailbox though. If they weren't you wouldn't have received them. How were you sending it back to Tiscali? If you were replying to the emails then that's bad as your replies will almost definitely have ended up in some innocent individual's mailbox and *not* with Tiscali. Forwardign the emails to Tiscali specifically wouldn't have done much good either I wouldn't have thougth unless they'd asked you to do this?
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The other point is that if you get "junk" mail or incorrectly addressed mail through your letter box, it is your legal right to return it to the post office for their action..... that`s what I was doing with the emails..... TISCALI was the postmaster sending it to me, so I returned it to them.....

Snail mail != email though so your analogy's a little flawed. As I and others have mentioned already, your actions will not have helped and if anything would have just been compounding the situation. I can see where you're coming from but trust me, sending the junk back out into the system helps nobody.
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I know that the "originating" address was probably false, but then so may all the "Junk"mail and incorrectly addressed mail..... how am I supposed to know? Legally it should be returned to the postmaster delivering it for them to sort out.

Yes but you're not sending it back to the postmaster, you're sending it to some innocent 3rd party.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,640
Thanks: 2,489
Fixes: 35
Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Spam!!

All points noted....
If I have an email address  123@tiscali
and you have an emailaddress 124@tiscali
Then by the very nature of 1 and  0 in computing law. you should not get my email, and I should not get yours
By the same token.... If I have an email blackbird@tiscali
and you have an email blackboy@tiscali
I should not get your email and you should not get mine    Is this correct?
Answer yes..... Therefore ANY corruption of the address  should not be routed to my email address, on the grounds of 1 and0 in computing law.  Therefore, if I do get email with a corrupt address, and I mean the routing address on the first line of all the rubbish that precedes the from and to lines...that is not my email address, and the address portion (to) or the content of the message (a long way down the priorities) is not my address, then it is "incorrectly addressed" therefore "incorrectly delivered". It should be sent back to the delivery office for official action.
When I sent the emails concerned back to TISCALI. I always enclosed it in a message addressed to "complaints@tiscali" or customerservice or "abuse"  (I can`t remember which now) and it was always entitled "incorrectly addressed/routed/delivered emails" with a text describing the error, and the reason why I was returning it to them.....
So really, they had all the information to correct the routing, and the possibility of tracing and eradicating the spam address.
When I was in the Royal Navy, My job as a Radio Operator, was message handling, and in particular, I worked on one of the most up to date (at the time) teletype message handling systems, sometimes handling as many as 4 to 5,000 messages in a 12 hour period, from all over the world.... (over the christmas period when greetings telegrams from merchant ships were being handled, it more than doubled)  Some parts of my job entailed tracing the routing of lost messages, and sorting out errors in the routing. So you will appreciate that I do have "some background" in the message handling techniques.

I did not reply to any of the emails, and there were about 40 to 50 variations of my correct address, all of which were notified to tiscali on various occasions.  I even listed them all in an official complaint email to there customer services.
As far as I was aware, I did not have a "catch all " address.  my email address was unique to me.
quote
Yes but you're not sending it back to the postmaster, you're sending it to some innocent 3rd party.
unquote
Sorry, but I disagree.... Tiscali, by providing the service are held to be responsible in the same way as the Royal Mail are held responsible.....  Tiscali use the telephone line to transmit the message  Royal Mail use the postmen on bikes to transmit the message. I sent the messages to their "complaints" or "customer service"  or "abuse" department with full explanation and they failed to action any of them....
Therefore Tiscali (or in my opinion any ISP) who ignores the actions that I took, cannot be described as "innocent 3rd party"
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Community Veteran
Posts: 26,786
Thanks: 987
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Spam!!

You will NOT get emails that have random names before the @ if you have the catch all turned off.
What you might get are emails which don't look as if you should get them as none of your valid emails addresses appears in the To or CC. These will come to you because they were sent to you as BCC.
The ONLY way to check for this is to look in the headers at the "Envelope to".
(Comparison with snail mail - the envelope may be addressed to you but the letter inside could be for someone else)
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
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Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Spam!!

That's not the whole case with PlusNet as the email address is abc or d@shutter.plus.net, but what was the envelope address,, that is the one that matters, My main e-mail address starts mr"  I get mrd, mrdd, tmr  all of which Plusnet treat as correct under there terms, it is then up to you with filters where it goes, its only if the part after" is incorrect that you can complain.  I get a lot of commercial where the to address is any old rubbish but the envelope address is correct.

Jelv got in before me  ;Db
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Grafter
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎28-12-2007

Re: Spam!!

I used to bounce my spam to sender and managed to get it down to a trickle, but I was told I shouldn't bounce my emails as this would bring in more spam.  Guess what...... I stoped bouncing and get more than ever.  I rarely get any thorugh my free email addresses such as yahoo and activatormail. 
I didn't get hardly any through my pipex email prior to migrating to plusnet. Since migrating my pipex email account (which I still check in case I have forgotten to change addresses to some important people), I now get as many as 300 spam emails a day. I think its pipex's way of saying we didn't want you to leave 🙂 instead of just closing the email account.
Note - I haven't had one spam email since migrating to plusnet and I have my catch all turned on as I was worried some of my mail wasn't getting through. Well done plusnet.
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Grafter
Posts: 138
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Spam!!

I suspect that the reason the spam appears to be addressed to a similar address, rather than the correct address, is that it is being sent to a block of recipients at the same ISP - this is very common. The spam is sent to one address and then CC'd or BCC's to many others who are adjacent in the spammer's list. The chances are that you are being correctly addressed - only a close examination of the email headers will tell you.
regards, Ian
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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,640
Thanks: 2,489
Fixes: 35
Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Spam!!

quote
I now get as many as 300 spam emails a day. I think its pipex's way of saying we didn't want you to leave 🙂 instead of just closing the email account.
unquote
Not really, they just want an "empty" email account to keep all your spam in, so they are probably really pleased you have left  Grin  Grin  Grin
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Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Spam!!

shutter you have forgotten again