cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

SNR reset

cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

SNR reset

Please could I have an SNR reset?
The SNR has risen steadily over the last few weeks due to a yet undiagnosed problem which has resulted in the sync speed now at just 239 Kbps (normally 6500 Kbps) with a SNR of over 30 dB.  Increasing the SNR has made no improvement in the number of droputs a day.  The signal can be steady at 32 dB for several hours and then just drop the connection without warning.
Without a SNR reset the broadband is virtually unusable but am waiting on some new better cable for the one telephone extension in the house before I start investigating the problem in the coming week swapping telephones,cables and messing with faceplates/microfilters and trying test sockets.
55 REPLIES 55
chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎13-07-2012

Re: SNR reset

Hi cowley,
As you're aware there is currently an issue with your line, I've posted a log of your recent connectivity:
<img src="http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13567142947817.png"/>
With the amount of disconnections it would not be advisable to place a SNR reset as it could make things worse.
How is your phone line, any interference, what is the problem you're aware of?
cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

Re: SNR reset

There has been a problems of some sort for 1-2 years and have had a few engineers visits which have failed to find a problem, although usually after a visit the line seems improved for a while.  In a good month I might only see 7-8 dropouts but am currently getting over 10 dropouts per day.  Some times the noise margin viewed using RouterStats is steady but sometimes very erractic.
I have tried various versionn of my Netgear router DG834 (V3, V5 and GT) in the past without improvement.
Before involving an engineer again I need to check the telephone and cables again and check for noise on the line.  It is not simple as I provide the broadband service for the rented property but don't live at the property so need to make a special visit and the master socket is located in one of the tenants bedrooms.  I suspect I will get an email shortly from the tenants to ask about the extremely slow speeds.
There is now one cordless telephone base-station connected to the master socket (filtered faceplate) via a 10m long cheap telephone cable, could this be a possible culprit even with a filtered faceplate.  I have ordered a shorter "Cat 5 Belkin CC3012AUK15 4.6m RJ11 to BT High Speed Internet Modem Cable" to replace the cheap 10m cable to test for an improvements (aasuming this cable is suitable).
Although the faceplate is filtered is it worth adding a separate microfilter for the telephone in case the faceplate is faulty or will double filtering cause a problem.
When I test the line I might also leave the router plugged directly into the test socket for a few days to see if there are any improvements.
cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

Re: SNR reset

After a night of rain I found this mroning that broadband connection had dropped and 7am and was still off 3 hours later so I drove to the property unplugged everything from the master socket and plugged a corded phone into the test socket and perfomred a 17070 BT quiet line test which gave horrendous amounts of crackle on the line, I did this test several times and also while plugged into the front of the master socket with filtered faceplate and still the same crackle, although by the time I tried to record the crackle the weather has improved and the crackel was more intermittent.
I plugged the router back in and it still couldn't connect buty once the noise on the line had improved it managed to get and keep a connection.  It is now running again at a solid 30 dB with no noise on the line.
Should I log a fault with PlusNet or contact BT direct to report a voice fault?
Oldjim
Resting Legend
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 787
Fixes: 63
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: SNR reset

report a voice fault and don't mention broadband
cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

Re: SNR reset

I assume that is a voice fault reported directly to BT.
spraxyt
Resting Legend
Posts: 10,063
Thanks: 674
Fixes: 75
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: SNR reset

Yes, report the crackly line as a wet weather dependent voice fault directly to your phone service provider BT. It would have been ideal to do this when the problem was at its worst since the agent should also be able to hear it and, if asked, note that on the fault report. However a POTS engineer should still be able to trace the likely source of the problem.
The reason for not mentioning broadband is that unless the fault is present at the time of call there is a likelihood that the broadband service will be blamed with you advised to contact Plusnet.
David
cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

Re: SNR reset

I have reported this to BT who as expected tested the line and found no fault but will monitor the line for the next 24 hours and call me tomorrow between 3pm and 6pm.  Lots of rain is predicted for Monday so I might ask them to retest the line on Monday morning if nothing shows up in the next 24 hours.
jelv
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 26,785
Thanks: 971
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: SNR reset

Quote from: spraxyt
The reason for not mentioning broadband is that unless the fault is present at the time of call there is a likelihood that the broadband service will be blamed with you advised to contact Plusnet.

... Plusnet will then identify that it's a faulty line and tell you to report it the BT etc. etc.
In the early days of ADSL we used to suggest unplugging and hiding the router before the BT engineer arrived!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 23,038
Thanks: 9,622
Fixes: 160
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: SNR reset

This kind of issue is one where there is real benefit in Phone & BB service being delivered by the same provider.  Indeed this was a significant motivator to me moving my phone services to PN for both my residential and home BB services.  If there is a line fault impacting BB then there is just one organisation who is responsible for managing the resolution - PlusNet.  As an added bonus, phone services are also slightly cheaper from PN.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Oldjim
Resting Legend
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 787
Fixes: 63
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: SNR reset

SNAP - that was the reason I moved my phone from BT to Plusnet
cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

Re: SNR reset

I reported the problem to BT who monitored the line for 24 hour and reported back (via the online fault tracking and not a telephone call as they stated) that We have run several tests and have been unable to find a fault on your line.  Unfortunately after reporting the problem the SNR margin was rock steady for most of the next 2 days although still with a few line drops.  Overnight the noise margin barely moved and even through heavy rain this morning the noise margin remained perfectly stable.  I performed a quiet line test again which was quiet although during the 2 hour of testing I did get a period where the line dropped and the router couldn't reconnect and there was some crackling on the line, but had stopped before I could contact BT.
The other thing I noticed is that ADSL handshaking noises can be heard on the voice line when the router is connecting, this noise is apparent when connected to the test socket via a microfilter or through the front of filtered faceplate, does this noise help point to the cause.
Raising the SNR has made no difference to how often the connection drops as the noise margin graph rarely falls below 26dB and many connection drops are sudden from a steady 30dB and the internet is currently unusable with a sync of 239kB and a noise margin of 30dB.
I am likely to be upgrading to the Fibre service shortly but would prefer to sort out the current problem first, unless there is a good chance that a switch to FTTC would fix the problem.  It's a pity that FTTP isn't available at my cabinet as I assume that would guarantee that any current line problems are bypassed with new cables.
Does anyone know what the current situation is with BT charging if they come out and can't find a fault (quite likely with intermittent faults and a BT engineer who isn't willing to spend hours checking every connection), I am confident the problem is external but expect BT to say there is nothing wrong.
P.S  Most of the ddisconnections today were due to me tetsing the line so manually disconnected lots of times between 12 noon and 2pm.
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: SNR reset

Spelling corrected
Quote from: cowley
P.S  Most of the disconnections today were due to me testing the line so manually disconnected lots of times between 12 noon and 2pm.

Doing that sort of thing when you already have a badly dropping connection is the worst thing you can do. The exchange DLM (Dynamic Line Management) raises the Target SNRM when it sees too many drops in a short period of time and on 21CN it can "Band" you speed (limit you maximum sync speed) which is what it looks as though has happened. You end up with a very high noise margin at the moments when the line isn't particularly noisy.
If you want to swap equipment, filters, cables or whatever, the best and safest method is to login to your modem/router interface and find the Disconnect/Connect button for the PPP(oA) Internet connection and click Disconnect. Then wait a minute before powering down the modem/router and then wait again before unplugging it from the line. Change whatever you want/need to and take at least 10minutes doing it. (If you want to alter your modem/router configuration do whilst you are not connected to the line,so that DLM is not see multiple reboots).
I also recommend not doing this more than 5 times in an hour and then leave it for the rest of the day. 21CN DLM in particular can be very aggressive in dealing with what it things is a dropping connection.
An SNR resets a pointless exercise when you have a badly dropping connection which you clearly have from the Visual Radius log posted and other information you have supplied. In these sorts of situations,doing a copy and paste of your modem/routers DSL stats, straight into a post (rather than a verbal; translation of them)is far more informative in the first instance.Also results from a BT speedtest. However there is already sufficient information here and getting the dropping connection fixed, which is being caused by the Phone line fault is the most important thing at this stage. It's also extremely advisable to get this fixed before upgrading to Fibre, because if the fault is between the Cab and your Master socket your Fibre performance will be rubbish.
I also note you have mentioned a cordless phone and extension leads.
First point, never use any standard telephone extension leads between a Test or Master (or extension) socket and any filter into which the modem/router is connected. The filter should be plugged direct into the socket and the short original modem/router lead used to connect the modem/router. IF a longer lead is needed for the modem/router you should be a screened twisted pair modem/lead from a reputable company (ie.not a cheap eBay job).
Cordless phones can sometimes cause problems and double filtering them can sometimes help. However cheap filters can also give problems - some will reduce the broadband speed and some can prevent Caller ID from functioning if you have that service. The best way to double filter if an extension lead is being used is to put the second filter at the phone end. The modem/router must always be plugged into the first filter. You should always use quality "Rat's-tail" type filters that look similar to this.
When testing a phone line for noise it is always best to use a corded phone where possible to eliminate the chance of the cordless being the cause of the noise. You are already familiar with the Quiet Line test. When the line is crackling "nicely", confirm it's still doing so when the phone is plugged direct into the test socket and then ring your line rental provider whilst it is nice and noisy so you can get them to confirm they can hear it.  As already advised do NOT mentioned the broadband, you get the run around. As it's BT Retail in this case and you've already had some difficulties with them, you are best to do this when the line is noisy and you may have to be a bit OCD to achieve this.
Get the Call taker to confirm they can hear the noise. Tell them your phone is plugged directly into the test socket. Insist they log it as an Intermittent fault and to make sure that information is passed to OpenReach.. I would go on to say that this problem has been going on for a long time (and it's worse when wet - if it is) and you are fed up with it not being fixed, it disrupts your phone calls and if they don't get it sorted out you are going to complain to OFCOM and consider moving phone provider as well! That should have some effect! Best of luck with that.
HTH.
Edit: Oh, if the engineer turns up and the line is quiet and he simply picks up the phone and says he can't hear any noise, ask him if he's used his Hawk Tester, because a competent engineer should have no trouble locating the suspect joints etc, with such a tester as your problems have been so severe and ongoing for some time, the bad joints don't completely disappear.
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: SNR reset

Ah, almost forgot, stick with using the DG834GT whilst you are having problems.The v3 is poor in the presence of Cordless phones and some other noise spikes and it's not a Broadcom chipset. Nor is the v5, that has a Conexant chipset, but may perform better. The GT will be the best for getting DMT information etc. which you may want if there is more than one fault and only the major problem with your line gets fixed.
cowley
Grafter
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎28-12-2012

Re: SNR reset

I think I am already on the lowest band and have been for around a week, the line is dropping several times a day even when the SNR margin looks steady.
Thanks for the detailed advice, much appreciated.
To clarify a couple of things:
The router is plugged directly into the Master socket via the BT fitted filtered faceplate and no rats tail filters are used.  The cordless phone is plugged into the master socket via a 10m extension although am replacing this with a shorter 5m Cat 5 telephone cable, although am trying to obtain a corded phone I can replace the cordless phone with for a a couple of days to check the cordless phone is not causing any problems (currently borrowing one for the odd hour or two).
I have always used a corded phone for any testing.

For plugging into the test socket I do have several microfilters I can use including one from ADSL nation and a Excelsus Z-420UKP2J.
For getting proof of the noise on the line I have set-up an account with 'Callinbox' so I can record the line noise and receive a wav file by email.
I haven't mentioned broadband in nay calls to BT.
I will avoid switching to Fibre until the fault fixed as suggested.
The main problem I have is that I don't live at the property as I let the house so constant monitoring isn't as easy although have asked the tenants to let me know immediately if they hear the crackle.
The telephone line does pass through a large conifer tree which also envelopes the telephone pole so this would be a possible location of the fault.
Edit: I have found a spare Netgear DG834G v4 that I could swap as I believe this has the same chipset and gives the same access to DMT data.
Would the following be worth trying for a 24-48 hours:
Plug the spare Netgear DG834G V4 into the test socket via a decent microfilter and then connect a corded phone into the microfilter instead of the cordless and then leave alone for 24 hours to see if the number of drops improves.