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SNR Margin

mot
Grafter
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎25-02-2010

Re: SNR Margin

Rami - Can you shed any light?
newthing
Grafter
Posts: 146
Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: SNR Margin

MOT>>
Here goes:
forgive the quote length
The comment 7 hours uptime (if you are rebooting your router)
I should ask if the router is on all the time or just when in use?
>if the router disconnects/reconnects often - the Exchange equipment software (DSLAM or similar?)
may take each one as instability
  so reboots on ADSL2+ 21CN best avoided
MOT posting>--------------------------------------
This morning's stat's, after about 7 hours uptime (retrained during the night as my upstream cap was removed)
So I guess I can now say 100% that I'm on a banded profile!
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:  1
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 810 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6656 Kbps  %%% If banded wait 3 clear days, no disconnects!
                                                                    %%% the exchange may move you up itself
Link Power State: L0
Mode:        ADSL2+        <<< Yep asdl2+ 21CN
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:  Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):  16.4      5.3
Attn(dB):  36.5      20.5            %%% OK attenuation, approximately distance from exchange
Pwr(dBm):  20.9      12.4
Max(Kbps):  13448      20267        %%%  what speed could max out at for your attenuation
Rate (Kbps):  6656      810          %%%  actual connect banded  4xxx -> 6656bps rate
%%% from PN SUPPORT page reference at the page foot 
%%% The following table shows the various banded profiles that are currently used on ADSL2+:
%%% ADSL2+ Banded Line Profiles
%%% 160Kbps - 288Kbps
%%% 288Kbps - 576Kbps
%%% 576Kbps - 1152Kbps
%%% 1152Kbps - 2272Kbps
%%% 1472Kbps - 3072Kbps
%%% 2272Kbps - 4544Kbps
%%% 3328Kbps - 6656Kbps %%%  !
%%% 4864Kbps - 9728Kbps
%%% 7168Kbps - 14336Kbps
%
%
%
        G.dmt framing
K:      209(0)      34
R:      0      16
S:      1      2
😧      1      8
        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      59      24
B:      208      33
M:      1      2
T:      1      4
R:      0      16
S:      1.0000      2.6666
L:      1672      252
😧      1      8
        Counters
SF:      1722258      699634
SFErr:      34      49871
RS:      0      3323371
RSCorr:      0      725647
RSUnCorr:  0      0
HEC:      12      131348
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:  439332882      198534899
Data Cells:  12296728      44169535
Drop Cells:  1614
Bit Errors:  0      7412577
                            ES,SES errored and severely errored seconds
ES:      164      30362  %%% these two are my only concern
SES:      1      798    %%%  if often like that DSLAM may keep line banded (?)
UAS:      52      179623
AS:      27987
INP:      0.00      2.03
PER:      16.25      40.00
delay:      0.25      5.33
OR:      32.00      6.00
Bitswap:  39      2507
Total time = 21 hours 27 min 19 sec %%%  uptime since last connect / retrain / boot or w.h.y.
SF  = 4748849
CRC = 638
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES  = 164
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 27 min 19 sec
SF  = 4748849
CRC = 638      %%%  errs in last 21hrs
LOS = 1        %%%  loss of session / sync / session dunno ?  not too good
LOF = 9        %%%  lost framing a header error?
ES  = 164      %%%  Errored seconds again near three minutes where errors happened
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 19 sec
SF  = 45489      %%% sent frames in 12 min
CRC = 1                      %%% One error  ( correctable) in last 15mins
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1

          %%% rough summary only one error in 21hrs that lost a frame of data
(which was presumably re-sent when it was noticed missing.  Pretty average  good line,
just like everyone's so nothing wrong there.
the banding may just be the router not having continous connection.
Leave it on all time if possible. otherwise just reconnect when in use.
  Thing to avoid is re-booting or interrupting the line. Exclude these
and let the line settle for 3 days or probably 2 x 3 days periods to
let the local exchange software see what it takes as a stable line and
it will begin to raise the speed.
have a read of the two broadband and broadband faults web pages, v.good
detail of how it works, care and feeding of a DSL connection etc. :-0
Toby

Please chip in if anyone knows
  but as starter>
  this a bit about dsl issues
http://www.plus.net/suppo...ed_guide/high-speed.shtml
this is a good bit about banded profiles:
http://www.plus.net/suppo...oadband_terminology.shtml

for example mine produced this lot when its running OK>>
Information  %%% in %%% my comments  %%%
   

Uptime: 3 days, 9:13:36    %%%since fri pm

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,155 / 16,108  %%% speeds havn't changed

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00  %%% shouldn't be zero but PN altered
                                                            the firmware on this model

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 0.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11.5 / 24.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 6.0

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0    %%% or LOF for short

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0    %%% some errored seconds

FEC Errors (Up/Down): NA / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down): NA / 3,422    %%%  CRCs happen all the time on modern connections
                                    %%%  squeezing out the last pos. bitrates from comm channel
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 2,662

Please chip in if anyone knows
this a bit about dsl issues
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/high-speed.shtml
this is a good bit about banded profiles:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/broadband_terminology.shtml

mot
Grafter
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎25-02-2010

Re: SNR Margin

Cheers for explaining all of that to me mate Smiley makes alot more sense now..
I missed a call from someone called kieth in faults today, he pretty much said that I should leave it as it is with the band in place to make sure that my line is stable (in the email that was copied to me from my ticket)
I called technical straight away but couldn't speak to anyone in faults so kieth is due to call me back - no idea when but I hope he does.
I don't think that's the ideal resolution if I'm honest - I joined plusnet 50% for ADSL2+ and 50% for the customer support - if there are errors, I want to find the reason and remedy it.
It was also suggested that I plug my router into the test socket, it already is!
My router is indeed powered on all of  time, when we switched over I was having a few issues with my network at home and needed to reboot it a few times plus we were experiencing a few issues with our switch to plusnet which probably didn't benefit anything.
Other than that, the router is left powered on 24x7
Sorry to do it again, but hopefully things are looking better - here's a copy and paste of my stat's again;
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 810 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6656 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.1 4.6
Attn(dB): 36.0 20.4
Pwr(dBm): 20.9 12.4
Max(Kbps): 12328 20252
Rate (Kbps): 6656 810
G.dmt framing
K: 209(0) 34
R: 0 16
S: 1 2
D: 1 8
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 59 24
B: 208 33
M: 1 2
T: 1 4
R: 0 16
S: 1.0000 2.6666
L: 1672 252
D: 1 8
Counters
SF: 24233837 9844982
SFErr: 1011 52895
RS: 0 2288437
RSCorr: 0 2505941
RSUnCorr: 0 0
HEC: 515 134727
OCD: 8 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1886940810 1267463628
Data Cells: 82402869 65263097
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 7725467
ES: 937 31684
SES: 0 1028
UAS: 29 179841
AS: 393800
INP: 0.00 2.03
PER: 16.25 40.00
delay: 0.25 5.33
OR: 32.00 6.00
Bitswap: 374 35484
Total time = 1 days 13 hours 24 min 2 sec
SF  = 24233837
CRC = 1011
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 937
Latest 1 day time = 13 hours 24 min 2 sec
SF  = 2968756
CRC = 143
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 140
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 2 sec
SF  = 33392
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55365
CRC = 3
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 3
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF  = 5316888
CRC = 224
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 199
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55366
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55427
CRC = 7
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 7
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55366
CRC = 3
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 2
Showtime Drop Reason: 0
Last Retrain Reason: 0
I'm a little unsure why it's only stating a day uptime as in connection statistics I have this;

newthing
Grafter
Posts: 146
Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: SNR Margin

cripes xposting I was editing the above just now too.
should be able to reply shortly
theres 08451400080
but hopefully they phone you soon
T
newthing
Grafter
Posts: 146
Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: SNR Margin

something doesn't tally 9days 10hrs online  web page readout/
1 day 13 hours may just be as far as the router keeps detailed stats
one full 24 hours (yesterday) and upt to 24 hours of the current day.then wipes yesterday and starsts over?
have you done all the fault wizard fully?
from:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/bbfaults/droppingconnection.shtml#checks
to
this next is the daddy===>
https://faults.plus.net/applications.php?Module=Faults
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/bbfaults/slowspeed.shtml
PN will be able to give more info on your line:
Line profile this page (what is yours)  
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=myconnection&?membermenu=connectionsettings
or  next page:
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed

find BT speed profile
speedtester.bt.com
inputs: 1st page phone no. only
              2nd page  "yourPN username"@plusdsl.net  ie. mot@plusdsl  only
each of the pages asks 2 bits of info, just fill in the first, leave second blank
and come back with PNprofile speed and BT profile line speed.
in case skew-wiff
also can  ask PN for recent 3-6weeks of:
Visual radius log       ( their log of when your router was connected/disconnected from them.
hope somehow helps
Toby
newthing
Grafter
Posts: 146
Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: SNR Margin


Heres some definitions of terms from google (somewhere)
Mode: ADSL2+ 
Type: Fast 
Status: No Defect 
Link Power State: L0 
 
  Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 19.3  12.6 
Attenuation (dB): 41.5  21.9 
Output Power (dBm): 0.0  12.8 
Rate (Kbps): 4093  1020 
MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message): 61  10 
B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 30  145 
M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1  1 
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 4  1 
R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 16  0 
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.2404  4.5447 
L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame): 1564  257 
D (interleaver depth): 256  1 
Delay (msec): 15  1 
 
Super Frames: 10721926  10721924 
Super Frame Errors: 3319  0 
RS Words: 2873476336  0 
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 219868  N/A 
 
HEC Errors: 2423  0 
OCD Errors: 474  0 
LCD Errors: 0  0 
Total Cells: 1667030606  1104829 
Data Cells: 72508597  30441 
Bit Errors: 0  0 
 
Total ES: 1193  0 
Total SES: 527  0 
Total UAS: 472  0
mot
Grafter
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎25-02-2010

Re: SNR Margin

I can't thank you enough for all of your detailed replies and messages T Smiley
I'm not at home at the moment so can't run any tests, just look at my router stats and stats on the PN website..
Going to https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed - Tell me that my current line speed is 2100kbps, obviously it isn't Sad
The fault checker also tells me that there is currently a fault open and doesn't allow me to fill out any more information..
I'm hoping a PN rep will see my frustration and pick this up, rather than me just being told by faults that I should put up with a banded profile.
Currently sitting at the same banded speed of 6656kbps with 103+hours of uptime..seems the exchange isn't going to alter my speed for me..
newthing
Grafter
Posts: 146
Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: SNR Margin

Bump -any CSC- reps here, please

Quote from: mot
I can't thank you enough for all of your detailed replies and messages T Smiley
just look at my router stats and stats on the PN website..
Going to https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed - Tell me that my
current line speed is 2100kbps
, obviously it isn't Sad
The fault checker also tells me that there is currently a fault open and doesn't allow me to fill out any more information..
I'm hoping a PN rep will see my frustration and pick this up,
rather than me just being told by faults that I should put up with a banded profile.
Currently sitting at the same banded speed of 6656kbps    
with 103+hours of uptime..seems the exchange isn't going to alter my speed for me..

mot
Grafter
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎25-02-2010

Re: SNR Margin

I asked for my band to be removed on wednesday and it has today, sync is around 11.5mbps with an IP profile of 10,000kbps, so a 50% increase.
Funnily enough, upstream has improved too!
Just need to see how long my line can hold at this speed for now..I'll obviously be leaving my router on with no reboots for the next 10 days Wink
Shame the rep's on here seem to have neglected this thread, hasn't really filled me with hope for what I was assured is one of the best ISPs about..especially with being told I have to shut up and put up with the banded profile.
I'll just take other users advice from now on I think.
Thanks for all your help T
mot
Grafter
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎25-02-2010

Re: SNR Margin

Just an update for anyone that was following this..
Since having my banding removed, I've had 11.5mbps sync - during my training period it's re-synced most nights but to the same kind of speed..i've also maintained an IP profile of 10mbps.
All of this with a 6db SNR and no excessive amount of ES / SES errors.
On Sunday morning (10am or so) my router re-synced for some reason at just over 13mbps with an SNR of 3.5db - seems the exchange has decided my line is particularly stable and has dropped my SNR accordingly - great stuff Smiley
Just need my IP profile to catch up now!
orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: SNR Margin

Hi mot,
It looks like your profile on our side and on BTs now match at 10000 - if you haven't seen a speed increase then disconnecting and reconnecting the router (via the router's own control panel rather than unplugging it from the line) should sort it.
mot
Grafter
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎25-02-2010

Re: SNR Margin

I saw the speed increase immediately Matt, constant 10mbps down since getting my new IP profile 10 days ago.
Hoping for another increase if my line stays synced at it's current rate - I'll go find the sync/ip profile page in a sec Smiley

newthing
Grafter
Posts: 146
Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: SNR Margin

Hi
Good stuff
T