Routerstats Lite/Full

[#1]

Quote from: jem16

Quote from: Anotherone Hi jem16, jelv has given you some more info on the "ferrite rod" antenna that all modern AM radios will have. When the radio is in it's normal operating position, the rod runs horizontally, normally along the longest horizontal dimension of the radio and is normally at/near the top. With the analogue radio I've been using there is an external telescopic aerial which comes out of the top of it. So yes it is running along the longest dimension of the radio but in my case this is its "height" so to speak.

On all the radios I've had with an external telescopic aerial it's been the FM aerial and there was still a ferrite rod aerial inside for the AM.

[#2]

Never thought about a separate aerial but yes you're probably correct.

[#3]

Couple more graphs today showing a drop again. The rest of the day has been fine.

[#4]

Hi Anotherone + jem16 (apologies for the long post, hopefully it will show throwing money at the problem may not always fix it! In my case anyway, LOL)
Unfortunately, gave all the Sky router's away. I'm sure I did some firmware 'modification' on it. One was the Sky (white) netgear dg834GT (Ithink?) used the DGTeam software but it made no overall difference to line speed. (I don't recall tinkering with it too much)
The other was what looked like a mini sky tv box, black on the underside and silver on top (version 25__ N something). It was also flashed and made no difference to my plusnet line.
In desperation I bought (used) netgear dgn1000 (I think) and  a 2wire (BT) router, alas with the same results.  Similar issues to jem16 in that SNR would vary/drop off and come back up. Speed would remain 'lower' than for my lines downstream attenuation.  I tried logging with RS on the plusnet router but nothing was apparent. Switched everything off at the fuseboard, changed PSU's, walked around with an AM radio etc but could never find the culprit.
The longer term solution which worked for me was
- change cable from router to BT socket (to a shielded variety, approx. 2m long)
- buy a used netgear dgn3500 (flash with amod firmware) something to do with matching dslam to chip in router?
Overall outcome was a sync speed of 16000 kbps with attenuation of 26.5db (plusnet portal shows line speed of 14.2)  plusnet/bt checker, estimate for my line shows 5 - 7 Mbps (go figure!)
That's how its been left for the last 12 months. But the plusnet and plethora of other routers only yielded approx. 10 - 12 ish Mbps, when (as jem16 mentions) the BT socket, phone cable all remained the same on Sky and yielded 14 /15 Mbps with no errors, problems or drop outs. It is odd and I also have no answers, it was all trial and error!
What I would add is...I was thinking of migrating back to sky last week as my 12 months were up and 'browsed' the sky forums to see if the grass was greener...  and I did pick up some posts about some software which sky had implemented which supposedly 'stabilised lines/increased speeds'? Maybe that's what assisted our stability and speed? If I can find the posts, I'll link to it...
Maybe with plusnet the interference (we are experiencing) is at the exchange, difference server/rack? as nothing changed at my end (or your's) from the switch from sky > plusnet.
pj2014

[#5]

Hi pj2014, yes if you can find the sky posts that might be an interesting read. The interference however is extremely unlikely to be at the exchange - it would cause so much disruption to a large volume of users, there is no way a fault like that would go unnoticed or not resolved quickly.
The reason is much more likely to be down to the way the sky equipment handled your connections.
The thing I did find interesting pj2014 was your Netgear and the amod firmware. I've never heard of firmware "matching" chips to the DSLAM, in any event how does it know what equipment you'll connect to? A few users advocate using modem/routers with chips of a the same make as the DSLAM/MSAN but I don't know how much evidence there is to support the idea of it being generally beneficial. However, the firmware must be quite clever if it's handling noise similar to this in a better way, BUT.....
Having said that, to be picking up that much interference in the first place is extremely unusual. So specifically for jem16's benefit, but I'm sure you will find it of equal benefit pj2014, and if applicable, may give you further improvements. I'll also apologise for not going down this path sooner, I normally cotton on to this tack the minute anyone talks about a dropping connection or big drops in SNRM but we were so involved with getting RSL running to capture graphs, it was only last night that I thought that we hadn't done this.
A lot of problems of this type are caused by faults on the phone line and/or bad internal wiring, incorrect use of extension leads etc. So a standard set of questions follows -
Can you hear/have you heard any crackling or other noises on the line when using the phone? Have you had any problems with incoming or outgoing calls?
Do you have a Master Socket similar to the one on the left? Later versions have grey print for the Openreach logo.
Do you have any extension phone sockets, and where are you currently plugged in? Are you using any extension leads between any socket and a filter, or between the filter and the modem/router? Are you using the original supplied short lead for the modem/router?
Do all your Microfilters look similar to this?
Depending on the answers to those, further advice or questions will follow.

[#6]

Anotherone I will come back to answer your questions later today.
However just noticed that the router has rebooted overnight. I haven't touched it. Current stats;
Link Information
   

Uptime: 0 days, 0:06:16

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,127 / 6,499

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 2.50 / 5.09

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.1 / 47.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.9 / 6.2

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 35,919 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 21

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 32

Will keep the PC on today and monitor what's happening when I'm out.

[#7]

OK, catch up later..

[#8]

Stats from a few minutes ago.
DSL Connection 

Link Information
   

Uptime: 0 days, 7:59:29

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,127 / 6,499

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 2.51 / 5.14

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.1 / 47.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.6 / 6.3

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40,781 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 198 / 258,858

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 227 / 2,900,915


Just before I posted it looks like the router has rebooted itself again;
DSL Connection 

Link Information
   

Uptime: 0 days, 0:00:56

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,131 / 6,543

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 2.51 / 5.14

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.1 / 47.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.8 / 6.0

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 18 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40,793 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
There were two drops again today although neither caused a reboot but quite a few errors by the looks of things. Graphs for today attached.

[#9]

Quote from: Anotherone

Hi pj2014, yes if you can find the sky posts that might be an interesting read. The interference however is extremely unlikely to be at the exchange - it would cause so much disruption to a large volume of users, there is no way a fault like that would go unnoticed or not resolved quickly.

I'm not so sure a large volume of users would even notice a change. How many would be monitoring a connection?

Quote

The reason is much more likely to be down to the way the sky equipment handled your connections.

That is a possibility I suppose. However I was only with Sky BB for a year having been transferred over from O2 whom I was with for 3 years approximately. My O2 router is almost identical to the PlusNet router and I never had any issues there either. Speed always was around 6.2mb/6.5mb. Upstream was always better than Sky and PlusNet is now comparable with O2. Before that I had cable BB from Virgin.

Quote

Can you hear/have you heard any crackling or other noises on the line when using the phone?

No never. Phoning the quiet line test number reveals total silence.

Quote

Have you had any problems with incoming or outgoing calls?

Again never.

Quote

Do you have a Master Socket similar to the one on the left? Later versions have grey print for the Openreach logo.

Yes with a test socket behind it. When I first changed over from cable BB, I removed the bell wire from my master socket which increased my speed. Tests done from both the test socket and an extension socket gave exactly the same readings.

Quote

Do you have any extension phone sockets, and where are you currently plugged in?

Yes I have a few extension sockets, hard wired to the master. As above bell wire removed and all tested. I'm currently using an extension socket which was tested at the time along with the master test socket. Both produced identical results so I used the extension socket as it's handy for all my Ethernet wiring throughout the house.

Quote

Are you using any extension leads between any socket and a filter, or between the filter and the modem/router?

No and no.

Quote

Are you using the original supplied short lead for the modem/router?

Yes.

Quote

Do all your Microfilters look similar to this?

Yes. All the filters used were supplied in the last 3/4 years by O2, Sky and PlusNet.

[#10]

Just had a wee bit of a blip there when I couldn't get onto web pages. This is the current stats in case it tells anyone anything. No drop in SNRM though.
DSL Connection 

Link Information
   

Uptime: 0 days, 0:33:55

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,131 / 6,543

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 2.51 / 5.15

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.1 / 47.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.6 / 5.9

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 18 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40,875 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 78 / 116

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 198 / 207


Funny things is that when I have this sluggishness to get to web pages, I can often get onto this web page but can get nowhere else. Any ideas?

[#11]

Have you got a fault ticket open at all, there may have been some testing going on, check the ticket if you have one.

[#12]

Not aware of any fault ticket - it's certainly nothing I've initiated.
Where would I find this ticket?

[#13]

In your "My Questions" (otherwise known as Tickets), but if you haven't initiated a fault, then don't worry about that.
Looking at those stats you posted, as you say a large amount of CRC & HEC errors since this morning, but I've only just noticed you have no Interleaving on. Have you requested it be turned of permanently? If not, DLM hasn't acted to turn it on since start of training, so as yet it doesn't think errors are too high. Also because you are in Training, the drops could be DLM
These are not reboots that are occurring btw, they are just resyncs - very different. When you have a reboot, whether initiated by you or due to a power outage - all the stats will get reset.
In these cases the ES and LOS, LOF weren't reset so it was just a resync, also indicated by the increase in LOS (& LOF).
Now it's odd, that both this morning, just before you posted stats and likewise again this afternoon just before you posted stats you get a resync.
First double check that you haven't got any iffy connections. Watch your stats and the lights on the 582n and wiggle the wires etc to check nothing is loose or dodgy.
The interesting things is that this afternoons "sluggishness". Was this just with the Forum here? because that can be sluggish and seems to stall on occasion, that's an issue with the Forum servers.

[#14]

Quote from: Anotherone

Looking at those stats you posted, as you say a large amount of CRC & HEC errors since this morning, but I've only just noticed you have no Interleaving on. Have you requested it be turned of permanently?

I haven't requested anything of PlusNet and I actually have no idea what Interleaving is and where you get that info from my stats? Could you explain both please?

Quote

If not, DLM hasn't acted to turn it on since start of training, so as yet it doesn't think errors are too high. Also because you are in Training, the drops could be DLM

The noise margin drops or the connection drops?

Quote

These are not reboots that are occurring btw, they are just resyncs - very different. When you have a reboot, whether initiated by you or due to a power outage - all the stats will get reset. In these cases the ES and LOS, LOF weren't reset so it was just a resync, also indicated by the increase in LOS (& LOF).

I see now. I just assumed it was a reboot as I thought, stupidly, that you need that to resync.

Quote

Now it's odd, that both this morning, just before you posted stats and likewise again this afternoon just before you posted stats you get a resync.

Well spotted! It wasn't so much my posting but the fact that I had gone upstairs to where the router is sited to unplug a Sky box and TV that sit beside the router. I should have noticed the resync took place as I did that but mistakenly read the uptime as 6 hours and not 6 minutes as it should have been. The 2nd resync took place when I went back upstairs to plug them both back in as they weren't the cause of the 2 drops during yesterday.

Quote

First double check that you haven't got any iffy connections. Watch your stats and the lights on the 582n and wiggle the wires etc to check nothing is loose or dodgy.

The problem arose when I wiggled the micro filter connection at the actual socket - that caused a resync. I've changed that and seems fine. However 10 minutes later as I'm writing this I've had another drop down to 0.1 for around 10 minutes.
Stats from router just after that drop.
DSL Connection 

Link Information
   

Uptime: 0 days, 0:23:45

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,155 / 6,703

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 3.69 / 5.37

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.2 / 47.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.8 / 6.1

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 45 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 8 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 42,718 / 1

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 177 / 29,599

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 374 / 404,623

Quote

The interesting things is that this afternoons "sluggishness". Was this just with the Forum here? because that can be sluggish and seems to stall on occasion, that's an issue with the Forum servers.

The "sluggishness" problem is the opposite to that. I can get this site but have problems getting other sites such as the BBC, Google, Post Office etc.

[#15]

Right, the sluggishness will probably be related to the content richness of those sites. When the SNRM gets very low, there will be a lot more errors at those instants, and need for a lot more data retransmission to try and correct them.

Quote from: jem16

.....and I actually have no idea what Interleaving is and where you get that info from my stats? Could you explain both please?

Interleaving is a form of error correction. When it's on, you get FEC errors and a reduction in CRC errors, but it comes at the expense of increased ping times, which for most gamers is not good. No FECs = No Interleaving.

Quote from: jem16

The noise margin drops or the connection drops?

Connection drops. "A Drop" is most often used in the context of connection but of course could be used to describe SNRM behhaviour. DLM does not do SNRM drops.

Quote from: jem16

I see now. I just assumed it was a reboot as I thought, stupidly, that you need that to resync.

Not stupidly, if you didn't know, then you wouldn't think about it.  Any disconnection then reconnection on the line-side would cause a resync.
A huge burst of noise (eg.lightning) which could cause SNRM to drop to zero and result in loss of sync, would hence cause a resync.

Quote from: jem16

I'm not so sure a large volume of users would even notice a change. How many would be monitoring a connection? Quote The reason is much more likely to be down to the way the sky equipment handled your connections. That is a possibility I suppose.

Much more than a possibility. They don't have to be monitoring their connection, they would notice reduced (down)load speeds.

Quote from: jem16

Yes I have a few extension sockets, hard wired to the master. As above bell wire removed and all tested. I'm currently using an extension socket which was tested at the time along with the master test socket. Both produced identical results .........

Were those results sync speed and SNRM, or download speeds?
When you removed the bell wire (was that at extension sockets as well?) do you remember the colours of the wires on terminals 2 & 5?
If not, have a look behind one of your extensions that the modem/router is not plugged into.

Quote from: jem16

.......to unplug a Sky box

Is the Sky box plugged into a Microfilter that looks like this?
Do you have a spare filter?