Routerstats Lite/Full

[#1]

Sorry, no not the way the speaker is facing, along the length of the radio - usually 90° to the speaker unless you have a funny shaped radio 

[#2]

Wasn't sure which bit you were after!
WBC 160K - 24M No delay (INP 0) 6dB Downstream, UC No delay (INP 0) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)
That shows no banding on the line and there is a 6db target.
We're showing a sync of 4855 with a profile of 4283.

[#3]

Thanks Chris, you're a star.
So jem16, best not to have a resync for now.

[#4]

With you now. It's a Walkman type shape so the length that you mean would be its breadth I think as It's taller than it is wide.
Following that line takes me into the back garden or out the front garden.
Whatever it was has been switched off now.

[#5]

Quote from: Anotherone

Thanks Chris, you're a star.

Yes thank you Chris.

Quote

So jem16, best not to have a resync for now.

Ok I get the 6db bit and therefore a resync could cause issues.
However could you or Chris explain the rest please - ie the profile part being 4283. Also if target is 6db how does it get to 11/12db?
Sorry to sound so stupid 

[#6]

The noise or on the SNRM graph or both has switched off?  if both it's the right noise, but you may as well read what I was about to post.
Right a bit more with the radio. Obviously it's possible to tune to the wrong noise. So if it disappears off the SNRM graph and you can still hear it, it's the wrong noise. Make a note of where you are on the dial and tune up towards the 800kHz direction and see if you can find the same or similar noise again where there is no strong radio station and see if it Nulls in the same direction. If not, try another noise until you find 2 that are consistent.
Point taken about the Walkman shape, so yes breadth, certainly not height or thickness/depth.
Use which ever radio is easiest or both for confirmation.
Are there any houses along the line of the two gardens - across the road or at the end of another garden backing onto yours?
I'll post this and then post about your profile & etc.

[#7]

Quote from: Anotherone

The noise or on the SNRM graph or both has switched off?  if both it's the right noise, but you may as well read what I was about to post.

I was meaning the graph showed the SNRM had gone back up to 10.8.

Quote

Right a bit more with the radio. Obviously it's possible to tune to the wrong noise. So if it disappears off the SNRM graph and you can still hear it, it's the wrong noise. Make a note of where you are on the dial and tune up towards the 800kHz direction and see if you can find the same or similar noise again where there is no strong radio station and see if it Nulls in the same direction. If not, try another noise until you find 2 that are consistent.

I would have said the noise was still present but less loud so not completely sure about it being the right noise. I will experiment.

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Point taken about the Walkman shape, so yes breadth, certainly not height or thickness/depth. Use which ever radio is easiest or both for confirmation.

Will do once I get batteries for the digital radio. Using the analogue just now.

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Are there any houses along the line of the two gardens - across the road or at the end of another garden backing onto yours?

Yes houses in both directions but the ones at the back are closer. The ones across the front sit back quite a bit from the road.

[#8]

Quote from: jem16

I would have said the noise was still present but less loud so not completely sure about it being the right noise. I will experiment.

That's what you need to do, it can get a bit frustrating at first, but once you get the hang of it and find the correct noise, it'll come together as you recognise what you are looking for.
Profiles etc -
On 21CN exchange connections the BT IP Profile is 88.2% of the sync speed.
If you run the BTw Performance test (DO NOT REBOOT, ignore the red preamble except make sure no other programs are using the Internet) and at the end of the first run, click the Further Diagnostics button, enter just your Phone number and Run the Further Diagnostics Test, you see it gives the BT IP profile.
Do a Copy and Paste of the results and post here (no need to grab an image).
When everything is working correctly this is matched by your Current Line speed (Login required) (to one decimal place) so yours should say 4.2Mbps (don't post your phone number)
The profile is the maximum throughput speed you can achieve because the packets of data have headers etc all called overheads which in effect are deducted from the sync speed (this is a very simplistic explanation).
When your connection syncs with the exchange, it will always do so at the Target Noise Margin (Target SNRM - 'signal to noise ratio margin' in full). If there is lots of noise present at sync, you get a slower speed. When the noise goes away the SNRM rises - as you've seen. If you were to resync you'd get a higher speed, but because of the Target, the SNRM it would be back lower again and when the noise re-appears the SNRM goes down, so you can get loads more errors or lose sync altogether.
Ask away if there's anything about that you don't follow, because it's not an easy concept to grasp.

[#9]

Quote from: Anotherone

That's what you need to do, it can get a bit frustrating at first, but once you get the hang of it and find the correct noise, it'll come together as you recognise what you are looking for.

Ok just to make sure I've got this correct. Once I find the correct noise, that noise will disappear when I get the breadth of the radio in its line. Is that correct?
In my mind I would have expected the noise to get worse not better.

Quote

Profiles etc - On 21CN exchange connections the BT IP Profile is 88.2% of the sync speed. If you run the BTw Performance test (DO NOT REBOOT, ignore the red preamble except make sure no other programs are using the Internet) and at the end of the first run, click the Further Diagnostics button, enter just your Phone number and Run the Further Diagnostics Test, you see it gives the BT IP profile. Do a Copy and Paste of the results and post here (no need to grab an image).

   
1. Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.

Download  Speed
4.1 Mbps
 
0 Mbps 4 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 4.1 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1.2 Mbps-4 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 4.28 Mbps
2. Upstream Test:  -provides background information.

Upload Speed
0.76 Mbps
 
0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.76Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps

Quote

When everything is working correctly this is matched by your Current Line speed (Login required) (to one decimal place) so yours should say 4.2Mbps (don't post your phone number)

Phone exchange:CROFTFOOT
Estimated line speed:5Mb (This may vary between 3Mb and 8Mb)  - Checked on 2014-10-26 21:42:37
Current line speed:4.2 Mb

Quote

When your connection syncs with the exchange, it will always do so at the Target Noise Margin (Target SNRM - 'signal to noise ratio margin' in full). If there is lots of noise present at sync, you get a slower speed. When the noise goes away the SNRM rises - as you've seen. If you were to resync you'd get a higher speed, but because of the Target, the SNRM it would be back lower again and when the noise re-appears the SNRM goes down, so you can get loads more errors or lose sync altogether. Ask away if there's anything about that you don't follow, because it's not an easy concept to grasp.

Ok last reboot which follows on from those very low SNRM logs I posted earlier was at 18:16 a week ago - not the ideal as it was already dark and dinnertime but I had no choice.
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:07,    Noise Margin (dB)= *******
xdsl, Connection Speed (Kbps)= xdsl, Upstream Sync= 0
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:13,    Noise Margin (dB)= *******
xdsl, Connection Speed (Kbps)= xdsl, Upstream Sync= 0
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:19,    Noise Margin (dB)= *******
xdsl, Connection Speed (Kbps)= xdsl, Upstream Sync= 0
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:19,    Noise Margin (dB)= and=enabled
Modem, Connection Speed (Kbps)= bled
Modem, Upstream Sync= 0
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:26,    Noise Margin (dB)= and=enabled
Modem, Connection Speed (Kbps)= bled
Modem, Upstream Sync= 0
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= and=enabled
Modem, Connection Speed (Kbps)= bled
Modem, Upstream Sync= 0
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:16:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.2, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:17:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.2, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:17:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:17:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:17:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:18:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:18:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:18:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:18:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:19:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:19:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:19:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:19:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:20:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:20:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 6.1, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:20:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:20:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:21:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:21:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:21:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:21:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:22:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:22:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:22:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:22:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:23:01,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:23:16,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:23:31,    Noise Margin (dB)= 9.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
Wed 12 Nov 2014  18:23:46,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.0, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4855, Upstream Sync= 1115
So yes it lowered the speed from 6243 to 4855 but from what I can gather, in the absence of logs or graphs for those daylight hours that day, it probably stayed around 6db and then dropped as darkness and peak electricity time arrived.
Previous day before Chris uncapped the upload it was;
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:49:36,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.7, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:49:51,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.6, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:50:06,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.7, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:50:21,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.7, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:50:36,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.6, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:03,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:18,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:33,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:48,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445

[#10]

Anotherone I just want to thank you for your help and patience with this.
One last question for now;
I'm pretty sure Sky had me on a 6db target and speed was around 6200 after DLM. I doubt very much that this noise issue just appeared the day I switched over to PlusNet so how could my Sky router handle this issue as it seemed to be doing? Unfortunately I don't have logs to back this up.

[#11]

Quote from: jem16

Ok just to make sure I've got this correct. Once I find the correct noise, that noise will disappear when I get the breadth of the radio in its line. Is that correct?

Inside the radio will be a rod which is the aerial. It picks up the best signal when it sideways on to the source of the radio emission. When the aerial is in a direct line pointing to the source it will pick up little or no signal. You just have to figure out the alignment of the aerial inside you radio which might require your to take a peek inside.

[#12]

Quote from: jem16

I'm pretty sure Sky had me on a 6db target and speed was around 6200 after DLM. I doubt very much that this noise issue just appeared the day I switched over to PlusNet so how could my Sky router handle this issue as it seemed to be doing? Unfortunately I don't have logs to back this up.

This...totally!  I am following this thread for the very same reason. I too moved from Sky ADSL2+ to PlusNet ADSL2+ (12 months ago) and had the same 'rogue device' problems you have. They only appeared the day after I moved to PlusNet. Sky was solid, no noise, no drop outs and was faster.
Sky's router was nothing special and all my equipment/sockets are the same...  I'm following this thread with interest.... hope you find answers jem16

[#13]

Hi jem16, jelv has given you some more info on the "ferrite rod" antenna that all modern AM radios will have. When the radio is in it's normal operating position, the rod runs horizontally, normally along the longest horizontal dimension of the radio and is normally at/near the top.
& Hi there pj2014.
No need for me to quote jem16's question again, and it's certainly interesting and one which I don't have an immediate answer to, but as you say the Sky modem/router is nothing special and I very much doubt this has anything to to with the modem/router. That said, at some point, it might be interesting to experiment but I believe the Sky modem/router is locked to Sky, but if either of you still have it, there are ways of getting them unlocked but we'll leave this aside for the time being as it won't be a 5 minute job. Just to be clear pj2014, you say "had the same" - have you still got it or has it gone away?
jem16, I very much doubt the rogue interference appeared on the day you moved, but it might have appeared shortly before (or after) and just not been noticed, but that's probably a bit too much of a coincidence and  my suspicion is that the impact of the interference would have been noticed if you happened to have been running the relevant checks at the time. Possibly because of the way the exchange equipment handles the connection, once the interference has gone, things return to "near normal". In jem16's case, so far this interference appears mainly in the day, with some short bursts at other times, so could easily be missed if you aren't in most of the day.
Just to answer the other queries in reply #83,
Looking at the logs, you'd obviously had a drop sometime on or prior to the 11th due to this issue as the speed was down similar to now. When the resync because of the upstream uncap took place, the interference wasn't present, so the speed went back up. When the interference reappeared, at some point the sync dropped again and resynced at the slower speed.
As far as the nulling of the interference signal goes

Quote

In my mind I would have expected the noise to get worse not better.

because of the way electromagnetic waves travel (an extremely complex subject) they are picked up most strongly when the ferrite rod is horizontal and sideways on to the source. When the length of the rod is pointing at the source, the pickup is minimal, hence you can get a null (or a minimum in the presence of a very strong signal).

[#14]

Quote from: pj2014

This...totally!  I am following this thread for the very same reason. I too moved from Sky ADSL2+ to PlusNet ADSL2+ (12 months ago) and had the same 'rogue device' problems you have. They only appeared the day after I moved to PlusNet. Sky was solid, no noise, no drop outs and was faster. Sky's router was nothing special and all my equipment/sockets are the same...  I'm following this thread with interest.... hope you find answers jem16

Thanks - interesting to hear of someone with the exact same issue. Can't be total coincidence.

[#15]

Quote from: Anotherone

Hi jem16, jelv has given you some more info on the "ferrite rod" antenna that all modern AM radios will have. When the radio is in it's normal operating position, the rod runs horizontally, normally along the longest horizontal dimension of the radio and is normally at/near the top.

With the analogue radio I've been using there is an external telescopic aerial which comes out of the top of it. So yes it is running along the longest dimension of the radio but in my case this is its "height" so to speak.

Quote

That said, at some point, it might be interesting to experiment but I believe the Sky modem/router is locked to Sky, but if either of you still have it, there are ways of getting them unlocked but we'll leave this aside for the time being as it won't be a 5 minute job.

It is locked to Sky and yes I still have it. It's nothing special but it is a "nicer" design and feels much more solid than the PlusNet one. It stands up with its longest edge vertical. Not that I really think that makes much of a difference, although it does help with airflow. It does make the lights easier to read though.

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jem16, I very much doubt the rogue interference appeared on the day you moved, but it might have appeared shortly before (or after) and just not been noticed, but that's probably a bit too much of a coincidence and  my suspicion is that the impact of the interference would have been noticed if you happened to have been running the relevant checks at the time.

I would certainly have noticed if I was running the same graphs and logs.
However I have to say I never had one issue with the Sky router - there were no slow downs, speed was always around 6.2mb and I never once had to manually reboot.

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Possibly because of the way the exchange equipment handles the connection, once the interference has gone, things return to "near normal". In jem16's case, so far this interference appears mainly in the day, with some short bursts at other times, so could easily be missed if you aren't in most of the day.

It's possible but unlikely. I was at home during the day from 13th to 17th October - no slow down and certainly no sluggish loading like I have had the first and third day after connection. I use the internet a lot during the day over the weekend too.

Quote

Looking at the logs, you'd obviously had a drop sometime on or prior to the 11th due to this issue as the speed was down similar to now. When the resync because of the upstream uncap took place, the interference wasn't present, so the speed went back up. When the interference reappeared, at some point the sync dropped again and resynced at the slower speed.

My first connection was at about 5pm on Monday 10th. Speed was around 4800 and upstream was around 445. I had to reboot that evening as everything slowed to a halt and I couldn't even reconnect that Monday night. Support though there was a fault on the line when I phoned them but then it suddenly came back up whilst on the phone to them. Both downstream and upstream were still the same as the first connection.
Some logs from Tuesday when all was working - or at least when I was using it.
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:49:36,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.7, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:49:51,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.6, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:50:06,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.7, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:50:21,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.7, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:50:36,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.6, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:03,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:18,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:33,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.9, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445
Tue 11 Nov 2014  19:51:48,    Noise Margin (dB)= 10.8, Connection Speed (Kbps)= 4787, Upstream Sync= 445

So speed has never been anywhere near Sky's except for that period on the 12th when Chris uncapped the upstream.