cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Router on 24/7 why?

FIXED
Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 555
Thanks: 57
Fixes: 4
Registered: ‎26-09-2015

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

I don't think anyone is going to test it by disconnecting their PPP and rebooting their modem 50 times as quickly as they can, and then reporting what line speed they end up with.

Maybe you mean they won't do it again.

 
 
Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

Logging in and Disconnecting the PPP session minimises the risk of a Stale Session, which if it were to occur means it's possible when the user switches on again and can't get any Internet, they then end up rebooting the modem/router multiple times, which is when DLM may start intervening.

Highlighted
Rising Star
Posts: 366
Thanks: 30
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

I have come to the conclusion that this "Do not turn your router off overnight!" is a load of nonsense.

 

I always turn my router off overnight. I do not see any evidence that it has ever harmed the download speed - it is the unreliable, crackly lines and connections that cause all the problems. Whenever I have in the past had a maximally fast, solid connection it was while I was turning the router off every night.

 

I once did try leaving my router on continuously for the magic "ten days" to see if it helped. "Ten days"? If only! The most I ever got to was 7 days. It didn't change anything.

Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

With all due respect pvmb, it is NOT a load of nonsense.

First, we'll be clear and get the terminology right. We are talking about Modem/routers not a separate router that are more commonly used on Fibre connections or where someone has chosen to use a custom one on an ADSL line and have a separate Modem (eg.a modem/router in bridge mode).

There are two aspects to this, I'll deal with the most important one first -

If you are on a longer ADSL line, but more especially if parts of the line are overhead, then the line can suffer from sometimes quite large decreases in SNRM between about and hour before sunset to an hour after sunrise - more so in winter. This is primarily due to increases in MW/AM propagation during those times.
If you switch on during those times, because your Target SNRM remains constant, you will get a lower sync speed than you would if you switch on in the day when the actual Noise Margin is generally higher.
For some people on longer lines (depends on the achieved speed), that can make a difference between for example being able to successfully stream video or it buffering constantly, but in any event you have reduced bandwidth.

In addition to that, those on a 20CN connection could drop into a lower profile band and even if they do a resync in daytime when the Noise Margin is higher, it can take upto 5 days before that profile rises if the sync speed goes back up to a new profile band!

There is also the Current Line Speed to take into consideration. Where you've had a lower sync speed and so a lower IP Profile, then the Current Line Speed will also generally have got lowered. Even on 21CN where the IP Profile updates immediately with a new sync speed, BT's servers do not usually forward the increased profile in a timely manner to Plusnet's systems (or any ISP using a BTw product), so there can be a further wait for an overall improvement in achievable speed.

If you are on a fairly short line, or the line does not suffer the effects of MW propagation to any extent, then you may be able to successfully get away with switching on at anytime without noticing any adverse effects.
If you only switch on in daytime, then generally you can also get away with it - however there are some days (any season) where due to atmospheric conditions MW propagation can be high, so you will have a lower actual Noise Margin, hence lower sync speeds if you sync then.

The other aspect is during the 10 day line training. You want to avoid any low sync speeds as it is the lowest speed during this period that sets the Maximum Stable Rate and hence the Fault Threshold Rate. If at some future date you have some sort of fault and the speed is still above the Fault Threshold Rate, then BT Wholesale will not treat it as a speed fault and so you can get lumbered with a lower speed until things get even worse.  The other aspect is that if you switch on and off a bit too much during the 10 days, DLM could regard the line as unstable and set a higher Target SNRM, resulting in slower speed.

Highlighted
Rising Star
Posts: 366
Thanks: 30
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

I'm still going to turn my Plusnet supplied router off every night. As I always do.

As for the "ten days", as I said previously - If only!

If it is important to some people who live at the extremes of rural lines, why not make this clear rather then stating it as a general requirement?

I have never found any sign that turning my router off overnight caused problems (as opposed to line noise itself) indeed, whenever in the past I was getting a solid 17Mbps on ADSL2+, I was turning my router off every night.

This is what I have found to be the case.

Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

It's quite obvious with the speed you are getting you are on a shorter line then, so you are lucky. But that's no reason to give others the impression it's not important.

Highlighted
Rising Star
Posts: 366
Thanks: 30
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

So it may be "important" where it is important and unimportant where it is NOT important.

Can not this message be made clear, rather than the blanket "everybody must keep their ADSL router on at all times"?

In my experience the real problem on ADSL comes from 'ordinary' intermittent line noise. This is the bane of the ADSL system.

Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

 

Line noise, and other forms of "noise" are the bane of any DSL system including FTTC.

And as for the "Cannot the message be made clear" - ask Plusnet! I would say they do make it clear they give the general recommendation that it's best to leave your Modem/router on 24/7.
As for giving the more detailed technical explanation as part of any recommendation to the average joe in the street who has no technical understanding, or come to that no technical interest, their eyes would probably glaze over part way through the 2nd paragraph, if not the first, and they'd not bother and it could put them off ever seeking any technical help. There are people like that about.

At least I've given you an explanation so that you don't inadvertently give other people the wrong impression.

You carry on switching yours off whenever you want, nobody is insisting you should leave it on, that's your choice.

Highlighted
Grafter
Posts: 55
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎24-09-2010

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

Hi all,

The current state of play with my parents system is:

DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Path Mode: Interleaved
Downstream Rate: 5540 kbps
Upstream Rate: 444 kbps
Downstream Margin: 6 db
Upstream Margin: 26 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 34 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 10 db
Downstream Transmit Power: 12 db
Upstream Transmit Power: 22 db

 

I did a BT-Wholesale test and got the following:

Download speed (Mbps): 4.73
Upload speed (Mbps): 0.38Ping Latency (ms): 60.00

Thanks @HarryB for giving the system a kick.  Doing the weekly update of Flash was soooo much quicker.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.  I'm not sure if I have persuaded the parent to keep the router on permanently or at least, just switch it off over night but I have learnt a lot about how the speed control system works most which did not seem to be available last time I played around with this issue (admittedly a while back; 5+ years).  S

Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

Well I'm glad you've got an improvement, (you can probably ignore the ping figure, not always reliable from a speedtester) and the speedtest result is in keeping with the IP Profile from the current sync speed BUT your sync speed should really be about double what it is.

This suggests the line is suffering a lot of noise/interference and I'm going to guess it could be due to old phone socket wiring. If it suffers like that, it may be getting spikes of noise periodically which could cause the line to drop and hence the DLM action.
If/when you have time you could tell us about the installation, what type of master socket (scroll down), if they have any extension phone sockets - hard wired or plug in, and what is normally plugged in where?
Do they use any extension leads between the phone socket and filter or filter and modem/router?
Do all the Microfilters look similar to this?

The "noise" isn't necessarily audible - it can be electronic noise, but do the Quiet Line Test 17070 option 2 to listen for audible noise.

Highlighted
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 16,453
Thanks: 6,711
Fixes: 59
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

If the modem stats you've posted can be relied upon (I've seen duff attenuation figures before!) there is still a lot of potential improvement to be delivered here.  If you are able to explore some of the 'usual suspects' for slow performance and remedy any issues found, you might more than double that synch speed.

AO has started you on that journey - internal phone wiring can have a dramatic impact on broadband performance, especially when the router is not plugged directly into the master socket.

Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

If the internal wiring.or drop-wire etc is not to the appropriate standard, then plugging into the Master socket will have little, if any, benefit. Plugging into the Test Socket if the master socket is the NTE5a on the other hand is a different kettle of fish (assuming all internal wiring is correctly connected to the faceplate).

Highlighted
Grafter
Posts: 55
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎24-09-2010

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

@Anotherone:

To my surprise they do have a master socket and it is a NTE5 one.  It is in the centre of the house.

The filter is a soap-on-a-rope sort (like your example picture) and that is plugged directly into the master socket. With one side feeding the router and the other side feeding 3 other items (all effectively phones).

Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

Hmm. Now this is a bit puzzling. As you haven't mentioned it, there are no hard-wired extension phone sockets elsewhere in the house then?

Highlighted
Grafter
Posts: 687
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎02-04-2015

Re: Router on 24/7 why?

This seems to have gone dead and marked as Fixed - From the last stats it looks like the upstream is still banded?