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Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

Protech
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Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

I've noticed on a couple of recent ADSL renewals for family members that the MGALS is set to 1.5 Mbs for both lines, which have different characterisitcs. One line has had a solid 14 Mbs connection speed for over 4 years and gets downloads in the 12-12.5 Mbs. The other is in the 8-10 Mbs range

IMG_20190107_194841.jpg

Yet on renewal of the faster line Plusnet stated

Your estimated line speed range is from 2.0 - 8.0 Megabits per second and your minimum guaranteed access line speed is 1.5Mbps.

 

However BT's adsl checker gives a range of 8-12 for the same line.and I'm sure that line had MGALS is the 4-5 Mbs range before.

So is this just an Plusnet/BTOR interface discrepancy or are the MGALS being systematically lowered to a point where its very unlikely they will be triggered for the  vast majority unless there is a severe line fault ?

 

 

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Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

Hi @Protech,

 

Thank you for letting us know about this. As the estimated line speed range that is given is lower than that on the BT ADSL checker, this suggests that there is a problem with how the estimate has been calculated.

 

If possible, please can you send me the usernames of the accounts that you've noticed this on via private message. I'll then flag this to the relevant team.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Emily D
 Plusnet Help Team
RobC
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)


@Protech wrote:

I've noticed on a couple of recent ADSL renewals for family members that the MGALS is set to 1.5 Mbs for both lines,

 

just to be clear, you are referring to what plusnet state is the minimum guaranteed line speed, not any actual issues with the line are you not?

 

Its seems to me its just plusnet trying to cop out on sorting line issues.

 

I rang Plusnet before christmas as my solid 9-10m sky adsl2 BB is up for renewal, but Plusnet said would only guarantee 1.5M but I could expect about 5m with their service. (I actually think they said 4-5m)

I asked why anyone would move supplier to half their speed?

To which it was suggested I look at plusnet fiber .. which they also refused to give any assurances on ... and did not seem to be aware that fibre isnt available despite all comparison sites realising that.

 

Needless to say PN BB is off the list - particularly with the mobile reliability issues I have seen.

Protech
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

@RobC-

Yes I am referring to Plusnets MGAL as quoted in my first post. Just to restate Plusnet offerred at 1.5Mps MGAL on this line !

Which reports a connection speed of 14 Mps according to the Plusnet supplied router.

ADSL - Copse (edit).jpg

 

 This makes it clear its not a "supplier " issue or line downgrade.  It would seem strange for Plusnet to get this so wrong as BT,Openreach and Plusnet are all peas in the same pod. So @EmilyD , can a staffer can publicy confirm on this forum that there is not a policy to make MGALS so low they would harldy ever be invoked. It would be nice to know what the "correct department" is and what action they would take . .

A little more transparancy, rather then burying questions of customer interest in pm's and tickets might just convince me this is not reduction of service by stealth

 

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Community Gaffer
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

To my knowledge, our ADSL MGALS figure is taken straight from a BT Wholesale's B2B interface. This information isn't exposed in the online checker though.
The different ranges comparing us and BT is very odd, not sure what's going on there.
I don't know who Emily has referred the issue to, but happy to offer my own opinion if you can message me the line detail in question.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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RobC
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

Interesting that I was given the same only 1.5m guaranteed but told 'could get upto 4-5m' on inquiring about moving to PN.

 

- despite me getting 9-10m from sky (which went up from the 8-9m I got from the start some years ago) although next door on BT struggle to get 2m - but wont leave LOL

(sky said I should get 6 - 8m and hit past the upper end from the off)

 

BT wholesale speed check on non fiber address just tested says upto 6.5m for me although they do say 10m for the other fiber capable) property - massively understated for the non-fiber property - but not as understated as Plusnet sales 

 

(@Protech's post seems to show its more widespread.

 

 

 

I think sky has separate stuff in the green box now. I seem to remember sky notified me of moving the service at the box some time ago - seems clearly superior, so maybe it would be as bad as estimated if I moved from Sky.

- Openreach engineer said just last week - 'fiber in about three months' - same as they have said for years

 

 

 

I got the impression PN salesperson was 'tasked' with targetting fibre sales and disincentivising standard BBand and ensuring nothing is assured to the potential customer.

- all despite fibre not being available yet where I am (got silence when I told her that)

 

 

 

 

Community Gaffer
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)


@RobC wrote:

I think sky has separate stuff in the green box now. I seem to remember sky notified me of moving the service at the box some time ago - seems clearly superior, so maybe it would be as bad as estimated if I moved from Sky.

 


Sky have their own DSLAM's in the exchange for ADSL (and their own line management profiling). The green PCP cabs use the same infrastructure as BT Wholesale providers though as far as I know.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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Protech
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

@bobpullen

Thanks for clarifying that , i was unaware there were 2 BTOR systems in play , public & B2B , maybe this is how the discrepancy arose, howere in the past I have found the public system reasonably accurate for a given line.

It would be helpful to know how the MGAL is determined for a given line?, from personal experience of both fibre and adsl it seems to been in the 60-70% range of line speed for Fibre and 50-60% range for ADSL

Hence my suprise at the ADSL line in question only being given an MGAL around 11%.of line speed.

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Superuser
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

It needs to be noted that there are exchanges where BT has not invested in ADSL2 technology, but those exchanges do have LLU providers who can supply ADSL2 grade services.

In such situations ISPs using BTw’s WBC services will only be able to offer a ADSL(1) grade service, so Sky and Talk Talk are always likely to be faster in those locations. They are typically small rural exchanges.
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

Which is evidently not the case for @Protech, plus I thought there were an ever decreasing number remaining with BT planning to upgrade them all. Also Sky or TalkTalk LLU is unlikely to be available from such exchanges.

Superuser
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

There are plenty of such exchanges in North Cheshire - https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MRCOM - is next adjacent exchange and this is not exactly in the sticks rural. Not too far away there are exchanges with FTTP but no 21CN.
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)

Samknows WBC ADSL2+ availability data is years out of date. Here's what I got from putting the Comberbach Post Office telephone number into the BTWholesale checker.

Comberbach ADSL2+.png

Community Gaffer
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Re: Reduction in MGALS ( Min line speed guarantee)


@Protech wrote:

I've noticed on a couple of recent ADSL renewals for family members that the MGALS is set to 1.5 Mbs for both lines, which have different characterisitcs. One line has had a solid 14 Mbs connection speed for over 4 years and gets downloads in the 12-12.5 Mbs. The other is in the 8-10 Mbs range

IMG_20190107_194841.jpg

Yet on renewal of the faster line Plusnet stated

Your estimated line speed range is from 2.0 - 8.0 Megabits per second and your minimum guaranteed access line speed is 1.5Mbps.

However BT's adsl checker gives a range of 8-12 for the same line.and I'm sure that line had MGALS is the 4-5 Mbs range before.

So is this just an Plusnet/BTOR interface discrepancy or are the MGALS being systematically lowered to a point where its very unlikely they will be triggered for the  vast majority unless there is a severe line fault ?

 

The MGALS value is not being systematically lowered by Plusnet. I think all we're looking at here is variability in BT Wholesale's speed estimate databases. AIUI, the values are not necessarily fixed and can change over time.

Using the line you're referring to above, this is what is currently given when querying Wholesale's B2B interface (which our ordering/upgrade systems use):

<WBC>
<RAG>G</RAG>
<REASONCODE>A</REASONCODE>
<SPEED>10000</SPEED>
<MINRANGE>8000</MINRANGE>
<MAXRANGE>12000</MAXRANGE>
<MINTHRESHOLD>2000</MINTHRESHOLD>
<READYDATE/>
<EXCHSTATE>E</EXCHSTATE>
<CAPACITY/>
<ANNEXMRAG>G</ANNEXMRAG>
<ANNEXMDOWNSPEED>10000</ANNEXMDOWNSPEED>
<ANNEXMUPSPEED>1000</ANNEXMUPSPEED>
<ANNEXMMINSPEED>8000</ANNEXMMINSPEED>
<ANNEXMMAXSPEED>12000</ANNEXMMAXSPEED>
</WBC>

So the speed estimate is now showing 10mbps, the range 8mbps-12mbps, and the MGALS (MINTHRESHOLD) 2mbps.

I've just carried out an in-life line check on the account in question using our CRM platform and both the speed estimate and MGALS returned match what's seen above.

From my experience of ADSL MGALS figures, they're not always proportionate to the speed estimate. i.e. two lines with the same estimated speed range can have different MGALS values.

Hope that helps.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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