cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Profitable circles

Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎26-04-2018

Re: Profitable circles

Absolutely.  Plus.net went off the boil immediately after BT bought it up: it did stage a recovery but a great opportunity to create a synergy providing the best of both looks unlikely ever to happen.  Being tossed from pillar to post by both providers was bad enough - having some young whippersnapper gloating about it on my answering machine beyond bearing.  I may yet release it on the net (for training purposes you understand).

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 17,878
Thanks: 5,655
Fixes: 955
Registered: ‎21-04-2017

Re: Profitable circles

Apologies for the experience you had @chips

From what I can see when Adam picked up your fault ticket on the 26th, our tests were failing with "CIDT FAULT . Disconnection or High Resistance Detected in Network" which can often be a broadband fault.

We then raised a fault accordingly to BT Wholesale, who then advised us that this was a phone fault, so I passed this information on to you to report to your phone provider.

Admittedly we could've been faster in picking up your fault ticket, I do sincerely apologise that you had to wait 6 days.

Let us know if you have any further issues.

Anoush

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 5,530
Thanks: 2,454
Fixes: 164
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Profitable circles

What beggers belief is that BTw should report to Plusnet for Plusnet to tell their customer it's a phone fault. The customer then has to go to their telephone provider for the fault to be checked out again and then presumably reported by the phone provider to BTw for repair, and in most cases all three companies involved are part of BT. Have I got it wrong or is it the telecoms industry that is barking mad and/or jobsworth driven?

Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,280
Thanks: 553
Fixes: 28
Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: Profitable circles

I think the crazy situation is mostly down to OFCOM regulatory rules which prohibit any use of logic and common sense.Sad

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 17,878
Thanks: 5,655
Fixes: 955
Registered: ‎21-04-2017

Re: Profitable circles

and then presumably reported by the phone provider to BTw for repair

A phone fault isn't reported to BTW, it'd be reported directly to the relevant team within Openreach.

 

Whilst I appreciate the frustration behind the process, I feel we've done what we could based on the line test results.

Instead of passing the OP back to their phone provider when we initially tested the line, we reported the fault to BTW to investigate this from a broadband side of things, as ideally we don't want to pass the buck.

Quite often a high resistance problem on the line is a broadband issue, and line engineers usually don't have the right skilset to resolve and ultimately we'd need to raise as a broadband fault.

However, in an attempt to avoid further delays on top of the time we took to pick up their ticket, we raised it as a broadband fault. Unfortunately in this instance, BTW were unable to progress this as a broadband fault as it was in fact a phone fault.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 5,530
Thanks: 2,454
Fixes: 164
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Profitable circles

@Gandalf

I'm not having a go at Plusnet. It just sees daft that after you get BTw onto the job and they find that it is a fault that needs to be handled by Openreach that BTw can't just hand the job over to Openreach and advise Plusnet accordingly.

Is this a problem due to the OP being on ADSL? As presumably VDSL and phone repairs are both handled by Openreach is the same 'going around the houses' rigmarole still invoked if broadband and phone are supplied by different companies?

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 17,878
Thanks: 5,655
Fixes: 955
Registered: ‎21-04-2017

Re: Profitable circles

No worries, yeah I appreciate the process is frustrating.

Unfortunately regardless of the type of broadband ordered (ADSL, FTTC, FTTP) a problem with the phone line is reported to the PSTN faults team within Openreach and isn't something BT Wholesale would have visibility of/able to do.

On occasion, if the phone provider confirms there is no fault with the line but our broadband tests still show a potential line fault, we can discuss this with BTW and progress it as a broadband fault anyway, however it's usually much quicker for the phone provider to raise it as a PSTN fault.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 16,458
Thanks: 6,715
Fixes: 61
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Profitable circles

All of the issues discussed here can be brought down to two key points...

  1. Internally the BT supply divisions (BT Wholesale and BT Openreach) do not talk to each other ... despite the fact that BTOR supply the services which BTw sell on to ISPs - if they acted professionally and they found that a fault reported by an ISP is a voice fault AND that fault is external then they should deal with BTOR to deliver a fix - clearly if it needs AN AOOPINTMENT then this somewhat has to go back to the voice retailer
  2. ISPs can only discuss data issues with BTw and CPs can only discuss voice issues with BTOR so even if the ISP / CP identify the issue, they cannot 'proxy' a resolution - again an appointment might be required, which needs to be arranged by the appropriate retail provider

This really does not help the consumer, but it is a consequence of decisions made by the consumer to CHOOSE to use distinct providers.  Personally I would never opt for separate providers, because I do not wish to project manage issues.

I really cannot believe that in this case, if the broadband was so degraded, that the voice line tests (supposedly) conducted by BT Retail, shown no indication of a fault, for the fault must have been present at that time.  Much rather I suspect that the caller mentioned "My broadband is iffy" and immediately BT Retail sought to start the buck passing.  Unfortunately Plusnet were unacceptably slow at catching the first pass and it would appear did try to get the line fixed via BTw ... however their unwillingness to deal with a fault in the network they resell, stymied the attempt to fix via the ISP.

An already noisy handset will not have helped with the first stage diagnosis as mentioned above - check for dial tone - check for noise on the line.  If there is no dial tone or there is noise (check often) raise a fault with the voice provider and make NO MENTION of a BROADBAND issue.

It is a painful lesson to learn, though coming over the same line and involving 4 different BT divisions, the brand is about all that they have in common as far as 'working together' is concerned and for that you can somewhat thank Ofcom.  BTOR and BTw are supposed to work so as to favour no-one* (level playing field) and this is exactly what they do - help no one - neither retailer nor end user.

*There is empirical evidence that BTOR does favour BT Retail for line faults, as from the point that BT Retail report a line fault, BTOR seems to be on the case to repair the said fault quite promptly, whereas other CPs seem to be told to wait 72 hours for resources to be scheduled.

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 3,963
Thanks: 2,393
Fixes: 16
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Profitable circles


@Townman wrote:

*There is empirical evidence that BTOR does favour BT Retail for line faults, as from the point that BT Retail report a line fault, BTOR seems to be on the case to repair the said fault quite promptly, whereas other CPs seem to be told to wait 72 hours for resources to be scheduled.


This may be attributable to the Care Level associated with the supplied product.  I believe that BT Retail provision their service at Care Level 2, whereas most other ISP provision residential services on Care Level 1?

 

Care Level 1 means that Openreach will respond to a line fault raised on your behalf by the end of the next working day and will aim to clear any fault by the end of the next working day +1.
Monday to Friday, excluding Bank Holidays.

Care Level 2 means that Openreach will respond to a line fault raised usually within 4 working hours and will aim to clear any fault by the end of the next working day.
Monday to Saturday, excluding Bank Holidays.

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 16,458
Thanks: 6,715
Fixes: 61
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Profitable circles

Indeed!  Questions have been asked in the upper house!

Superuser citation

This topic has been cited by one of the Superusers; the purpose of which is to provide a note for information which might help to focus continued discussion (but might not result in a staff response).