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PlusNet is NOW faster than TalkTalk for me (was PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk )

ejs
Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎10-06-2010

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Are you sure the DSL dropped, or was it just the PPP session? The WAN uptime is for the PPP session, and the router logs don't really distinguish between just PPP drops and when the DSL drops. The DSL uptime can be obtained from the telnet data (calculated from the superframe count). The PPP session dropping could have been to update the Plusnet "current line speed", shown by the higher download speeds. When the DSL drops it will be more likely to re-connect at a slightly different speed rather than re-connect at exactly the same speed.
Anotherone
Champion
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: ejs
When the DSL drops it will be more likely to re-connect at a slightly different speed rather than re-connect at exactly the same speed.

If the drop is caused by a loss of upstream sync, I've seen it reconnect at the same speed.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

I have had the same connection speeds, which I guess the DLM looks at since the retune on 08/01/2015 @ 05:00
If that defines my re-start of 10days then 18/01/2015 is the end.
Is there any indication that the DLM has finished the 10 day re-training? Like a report or something?
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Info : Router reports Uptime (from SF Count): 7 days, 20:28:34 as of 2015-01-16 11:00
HPsauce
Pro
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: DDNewCust
I have had the same connection speeds, which I guess the DLM looks at since the retune on 08/01/2015 @ 05:00
If that defines my re-start of 10days then 18/01/2015 is the end.
That event on 8th was just part of the process, which started on 5th Jan with the successful reset.
So I would expect it's all done now.  Wink
Quote from: DDNewCust
OK SNR has reset.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

I just read this on the Kitz site under the section headed  "Maximum Stable Rate. (MSR) - Training / Stabilisation Period." at this link  http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm#MSR
"A notification after this period is sent to the RAP profile and your ISP."
Question to CRT does this happen on my line and have you been informed?
And this line is a bit depressing as I know it is currently much lower than I am currently getting. "The MSR is set from the lowest achieved rate over this 10 day period rounded down to the nearest 0.5Mb."  Sad
Edit 16:45
I read this under the 20CN MaxDSL section, I know I am on 21CN ADSL2+ line, but suspect the process is the same.
Anotherone
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Hi Dave, well I think you've had a good training period which is now completed, no, there aren't any reports as such.
As HP has mentioned it started on the 5th with the SNR Reset and ran for 10 days during which time the MSR is defined. During training DLM can change the SNRM up or down depending on line conditions, resyncs will occur if/when those changes take place.
DLM obviously thinks your line is Ok at the moment as it lowered the Target SNRM to 3db quite quickly (resync on the 8th) and that's been held to date.
All 20CN/21CN lines have an MSR. It's only used to define the FTR (Fault Threshold Rate). Nothing to get excited about. It's only 20CN that rounds down. Your MSR should be 12260. All these settings and notifications/reports are automatic, nobody physically looks at them until such time there is a problem or fault raised. Delta reports are sent by the BT servers whenever there is a change in sync speed, not just during the training period.
If you want to fit your Mk3 plate, then go ahead when you have plenty of daylight hours to complete the job. Check before you start that your SNRM is nice and stable at the Target SNRM or above (currently 3dB).  Drop the PPP session and then power off the modem/router after about a minute.
Don't forget your modem/router extension socket wiring, the Blue+white trace & White+blue trace, connect to the two IDC terminals on the Mk3 plate. You need to use a micro-filter at that extension socket.
The other fixed phone extension sockets connect to the front plate IDC terminals or plug into the phone socket. Because those connections are filtered you don't need microfilters at the other sockets unless you have phones that need a bell-wire OR you can connect the bell-wire (Orange+white trace) to terminal 3 for the fixed extensions.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Thanks AO for you comprehensive post. I have been busy for a while and missed the daylight hours today, also there are a lot of others on the internet at this time. May take a look at it early this coming week.
Quote from: Anotherone
Don't forget your modem/router extension socket wiring, the Blue+white trace & White+blue trace, connect to the two IDC terminals on the Mk3 plate. You need to use a micro-filter at that extension socket.

Can I just confirm something first. I was going to make the line to router "ADSL only" wiring the modem connections in directly, both at the MK3 plate A & B  and at the Bedroom 4 extension plate (router location). Your post implies (I think) that I could use a rat tail filter Bedroom 4 end. It would be nice to retain the phone, but if the performance is much better or less interference than it will sadly go. If so I could try it with and without the rat tail as a test.
I will take readings before and after as suggest. Although I know the improvement may be reduced drop outs and CRC HEC etc errors.
For Info this is what I have now. including BITs graph
Uptime (from SF Count):
  10 days, 02:07:30
Upstream (Tx):
  Good Cells: 37496633
  Idle Cells: 2322302277
Downstream (Rx):
  Good Cells: 517566569
  Idle Cells: 2915642848
  Bad HEC Cells: 206431
  Overflow Dropped: 0
Down
Connection Rate:  13510  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 29    dB
Noise Margin:    3      dB
Max Rate:        13528  Kbps
Interleave CRC:  0
Interleave FEC:  0
Interleave HEC:  0
Fast path CRC:    154760
Fast path FEC:    0
Fast path HEC:    0
Up
Connection Rate:  1091  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 17    dB
Noise Margin:    5      dB
Max Rate:        1092  Kbps
Interleave CRC:  0
Interleave FEC:  0
Interleave HEC:  0
Fast path CRC:    0
Fast path FEC:    0
Fast path HEC:    0
HPsauce
Pro
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Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: DDNewCust
Your post implies (I think) that I could use a rat tail filter Bedroom 4 end. It would be nice to retain the phone
If you don't have a filter, how will you provide the RJ11 connection that the router cable uses? Or did you buy a socket such as I suggested?
The rat-tail filter doesn't really matter as the ADSL wiring is unfiltered, so "sees" the phone signal anyway, whichever extension socket it comes from.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: HPsauce
If you don't have a filter, how will you provide the RJ11 connection that the router cable uses? Or did you buy a socket such as I suggested?

I would connect it directly, inside the extension socket by modifying a RJ11 cable, probably shorter.  As I believe you suggested or someone else. I have a few of those RJ11 cables hanging around.
I would not use a phone in that socket, unless filtered.
Quote from: HPsauce
The rat-tail filter doesn't really matter as the ADSL wiring is unfiltered, so "sees" the phone signal anyway, whichever extension socket it comes from.

If I want the phone there it matters, which was part of the question I was asking.
HPsauce
Pro
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: DDNewCust
If I want the phone there it matters
Indeed, you need to have a filter if you put a phone there. But having a phone there will probably make no difference to the ADSL.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: Anotherone
Drop the PPP session and then power off the modem/router after about a minute.

Is the power off router bit preferred to removing the RJ11 out the back of the router and re-plugging it in when the works done? Or is the idea that the router forgets the SNR degraded bins that may have been stored, which now could be good or worse?
Anotherone
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: DDNewCust
I would connect it directly, inside the extension socket by modifying a RJ11 cable, probably shorter.  As I believe you suggested or someone else. I have a few of those RJ11 cables hanging around.

There is absolutely no point in doing that, use a decent rat's tail filter.
Quote from: DDNewCust
Quote from: Anotherone
Drop the PPP session and then power off the modem/router after about a minute.

Is the power off router bit preferred to removing the RJ11 out the back of the router and re-plugging it in when the works done?

Yes, power off is preferred. It primarily prevents any possibility of an "unclean" - in the electrical sense, break or make of the line sync connection which of course can create "noise", but also some modem/routers send a "dying gasp" signal which can be recognised by some DSLAM/MSAN line cards so that DLM doesn't interpret the sync loss as a drop in connection. It's always good practise to do it like that anyway.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Well the Mk3 vDSL plate is installed this morning around 10 am and here are the results.

Tests before Fitting MK3 vDSL Plate

DS Connection Rate:  13510 DS Line Attenuation: 29  DS Margin: 3
US Connection Rate:  1091 US Line Attenuation: 17  DS Margin: 5
Tests after Fitting MK3 vDSL Plate
DS Connection Rate:  14489 DS Line Attenuation: 28  DS Margin: 3
US Connection Rate:  1095 US Line Attenuation: 17  US Margin: 5
So an apparent gain of 979Kbs DS and 4Kbs US.
I think the Bits graphs attached before 9:13 and after 10:18 show why.
There is a lift of the SNRM at the top end Tones 256 to 512 from 0 to 1db, these now have more bits allocated.
But there is a slight reduction in the SNRM from Tones 0 to 256 which is harder to quantify but lets say it's about 0.3db. I guess the reduction on the lower BINs is due to the common mode choke in the MK3 before the ASDL line and the lift is the filter after that point disconnecting the added capacitance of the extension lines. Wink
But an overall gain on my line set-up it appears to be. Smiley
The testing on real downloads shows no real improvement at the moment for the near 1Mbs increase in connection rate. Sad
On the ookl tester 11.41Mbs Down 0.97Mbs UP .
BT Force tests 11.6Mbs DL 0.94Mbs UP    IP Profile for line is - 12.78 Mbps
Any reason why I am not seeing a near 1Mbs increase in downloads?
HPsauce
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Good result.  Cool
It takes time for the IP profile to update and propagate to PlusNet, meanwhile the speed is still managed at the old rate.