POP3 emails throttled on PlusNet broadband - affects both PN and non-PN email (Outlook client)

[#1]

1. I don't know why a certain 'cool' emoticon appeared in the TCP/IP address there for the Google DNS, but it was meant to be an 8, and there's nothing cool about my having to resort to a Google server.

2. In regard to the tech thread I mentioned, I didn't mean to pass from here without commenting that, apart from the hilarity, it was rather notable for a lengthy spat which put me in mind of some of the things that used to get said on the long-demised BBC Radio 3 messageboard. As happened frequently there, a moderator stopped it.  It is a worthwhile read for its technical content, some of which even I managed to assimilate.

[#2]

Hi ATP,

A few points...

Thank you for your kind words.

is what you get if you leave no space between “8” and “)” similar to “:” and “)”:)

Is your router fixed? Have you used telnet to query the spoofing setting? I cannot recall if Plusnet rolled out an estate wide fix for that problem but I do know @bobpullen arranged an update on request ability.

[#3]

@Townman, I don't know how to Telnet.  I will live with the workaround of using Google's DNS for now and get the router updated in time.

@Kelly, @jab1, I now see that the latest Office 365 went in on the day of the slowdown, so it was not as coincidental as jab1 said earlier.  See my fuller comments at https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/198-18-1-x-address-problems/m-p/1494906#M319427

Thanks everyone for help.

[#4]

TELNET is run from a dos prompt / command / power-shell window - the following will connect you to the router admin services...

telnet 192.168.1.254

Respond to the prompts for the ROUTER admin user name and password.

Username : User
Password : *****
------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             ______  Technicolor TG582n
                         ___/_____/\
                        /         /\\  10.2.2.B.EH
                  _____/__       /  \\
                _/       /\_____/___ \  Copyright (c) 1999-2012, Technicolor
               //       /  \       /\ \
       _______//_______/    \     / _\/______
      /      / \       \    /    / /        /\
   __/      /   \       \  /    / /        / _\__
  / /      /     \_______\/    / /        / /   /\
 /_/______/___________________/ /________/ /___/  \
 \ \      \    ___________    \ \        \ \   \  /
  \_\      \  /          /\    \ \        \ \___\/
     \      \/          /  \    \ \        \  /
      \_____/          /    \    \ \________\/
           /__________/      \    \  /
           \   _____  \      /_____\/
            \ /    /\  \    /___\/
             /____/  \  \  /
             \    \  /___\/
              \____\/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
{Kevin}=>

To find out the state of the spoofing parameter...

{Kevin}=>dns server config

Gives...

domain          : lan
timeout         : 15s
suppress        : 0
state           : enabled
trace           : disabled
syslog          : disabled
spoofing        : disabled
spoof ip        : 198.18.1.0
filter response : disabled
{Kevin}=>

To change turn it off and clear spoofing history use these commands in turn - the first 'list' displays those URLs presently spoofed, the second confirms the list has been cleared...

dns server config WANDownSpoofing = disabled
dns server debug spoof list
dns server debug spoof clear
dns server debug spoof list
saveall
exit

Finally to ensure that there are no bad DNS resolutions in your PC, at a dos prompt...

ipconfig /flushdns

Note TELENET is not enable by default under Win 8/8.1/10 - to do this go to settings / apps & features / Related Settings (a long way down) [Programs and Featues] / Turn Windows Features on or off -> Telnet client

[#5]

Thanks another heap.

Tony

[#6]

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@Townman wrote:
Is your router fixed? Have you used telnet to query the spoofing setting? I cannot recall if Plusnet rolled out an estate wide fix for that problem but I do know @bobpullen arranged an update on request ability. 

---

Situation is as per my post here.

@Attila_The_Pun, happy to push a fix from this side, however your router isn't registered on our management platform at present. To fix that, you'll need to factory reset your router by holding something in the pin hole at the back of the device. You'll lose any settings if you've changed them from defaults, e.g. wireless names/passwords etc.

If you do go down this route, then give me a nudge once the device has reset and I'll get the necessary changes applied from this side.

[#7]

Thanks, Bob.  I may well do that and will nudge you first.  However, I want first to look into why my wife's computer is not experiencing this problem.  I think @Townman would probably have the same instinct as I do on this: it goes against the grain to destroy the evidence, as it were, or throw the unfinished crossword in the bin.  I will get by for now with my workaround (using Google's DNS) and leave the router as is, until I have been able to get access () to the other computer and done a couple of trials.

Also, if a factory reset is going to hose my router password, I'll need to be reminded what the factory one is.  Any instructions that came with the router would take a month to find, if I still have them.  I have not changed any other settings.

Will any change you make be proof against a future factory reset, incidentally?  And if not, wouldn't it be simpler to send me new router without this built-in fault?

[#8]

Tony,

Out of personal preference I would not counter using any of the routers offered after the TG582n.  They are based on BT modem builds which the cynical engineer in me somewhat feels that BT made them difficult for users to get useful information on line performance.  They do not work at all or particularly well with routerstats, cannot be accessed via telnet, and some are perceived to be wifi challenged.

If you want another outer, I recommend that you go buy one ... they are not overly expensive.

As for the TG582n being 'faulty' I think the jury is still out on that one.  For spoofing to have come about, there had to be an issue communicating with the DNS.

IIRC changing the DNS servers in the router from Plusnet to (say) Google - 8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4 - stopped the issue happening.  We never did get to the bottom of the issue, beyond there needs to be 3 inter-working elements...

1. A TG582n with spoofing enabled
2. A Win 8 / 8.1 / 10 client - I believe that something significant changed in this OS to do with name resolution caching ... in the name of efficiency!
3. There had to be a communication challenge in connecting to the DNS ... if only briefly

This topic describes changing the DNS settings - https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/How-do-I-change-my-Technicolor-TG582n-DNS-to-OpenDNS/td-p/10... - though @npr's excellent help website on everything you ever wanted to know about optimising the TG582n is sadly in retirement.

Given the known murkiness over the mix of the component contributors, understanding why you wife's PC seems to behave OK but yours does not, might remain a mystery.

Personally I would just use telnet to apply the change, forget about it and go down to the pub and enjoy some fine beer.  The TG582n is a fine modem, hangs onto lumpy ADSL lines fairly well and wifi seems adequate.

[#9]

---

@Townman wrote:

This topic describes changing the DNS settings - https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/How-do-I-change-my-Technicolor-TG582n-DNS-to-OpenDNS/td-p/10... - though @npr's excellent help website on everything you ever wanted to know about optimising the TG582n is sadly in retirement.

---

@Townman,

Thanks for the mention, the site may be retired but it's still accessible via the wayback machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160617034159/http://npr.me.uk:80/

[#10]

---

@Attila_The_Pun wrote:

Also, if a factory reset is going to hose my router password, I'll need to be reminded what the factory one is.  Any instructions that came with the router would take a month to find, if I still have them.  I have not changed any other settings.

It's the serial number of the router (including the 'CP' bit), which you'll find printed on the attached label.

Will any change you make be proof against a future factory reset, incidentally?  And if not, wouldn't it be simpler to send me new router without this built-in fault?

No, a factory reset would trash the config change. Support would likely be able to offer you a new router but it would probably involve you re-contracting.

---

[#11]

Sorry not to have come back on this problem before now, but I was away for most of the last 6 weeks.

I applied the supposed router fix via telnet (taking out DNS spoofing), but regrettably it did not work.  I have been back in again to check that the spoofing is definitely off, and I also reset the router, just in case that made any difference, and rebooted the PC.

Changing the TCP/IPv4 settings such that the Google DNS server at 8.8.8.8 is used instead does fix it, and I get my emails downloaded at normal speed.  Using other people's wifi/broadband also works just fine.

So it is a problem related to the DNS server address as used by the PlusNet router, but apparently not related to the spoofing of IP addresses for my email servers.

So what now?

I'd rather not have Google following me, if at all possible.

Alerting @Townman and @bobpullen hereby.

[#12]

To confirm my understanding:

Downloading emails via POP3 from ANY Provider is slow if you use PNs DNS servers.  Who are your other email hosts?

If you swap to using 8.8.8.8 in the router, they are fast.

Your wife's machine, which is using the same router settings as yours isn't impacted at all and downloads fast irrelevant of the DNS address in your router?

[#13]

Kelly, that is correct.

My other email provider (which I only keep using in order to pick up the odd stray email when someone has copied my former email address from an old email) is OneTel -- POP3 email server mail.onetel.net.
[I am still a customer of theirs and have been able to keep a free email account with them, which I can tell you has been handy now and then, e.g. when PlusNet email has been having trouble. I sometimes set my web domain up to deliver my {domain-based) emails to OneTel instead of PlusNet, or to both.]

I have previously checked that the 'email slowdown' affects OneTel just as it does PlusNet emails.  I am currently trying to demonstrate this again by sending some large emails to OneTel and then trying to download them to Outlook (with the automatic DNS server addressing restored, and then again with the Google DNS server substituted).   I'm stalled on that retrial at the moment because the emails are disappearing into a black hole, no doubt owing to some error I have made.  I shall have to have another stab when free tomorrow afternoon.  But I did check this out before, and it was quite clear the slow delivery was occurring with both email providers. [As a friend pointed out, however, that doesn't necessarily mean they are actually unconnected, as both servers could be supplied by a common host system.  I'm told for example that the John Lewis mail host is actually provided by PlusNet...]

I can however report a new finding:

When I configure my PC to use the PlusNet DNS server addresses listed at

https://www.whatsmydns.net/dns/uk/plusnet.html (instead of the Google ones) the email delivery is also fast again!  (Sticking with these allows me at least to get out of Google watching my movements!)

I don't know enough about how my router works to understand what this finding implies but does it not suggest that the router is somehow getting the DNS address wrong much of the time or somehow failing to receive the correct email server IP address, with retries taking place, or something like that?  My knowledge in this area is almost nil. Remember, I have switched off the spoofing referred to earlier, to no avail, so that's not it.  [Sorry Kevin, but I omitted to capture the Telnet output listing the spoofing detail.  You aren't going to ask me to reinstate the routerl to get it, are you?]

I can also confirm that my wife's PC does not suffer this problem, despite still being set to use the router's automatic DNS server allocation, being on the same release of Outlook and Windows as my machine, and being connected to the same WiFi network, router and broadband telephone line as my own.

As I reported earlier, this effect seemed to be coincident with a new Office release.v1710 on 17 Nov 2017- see message 22 in this thread.  Some combination, then, of that release of Outlook, my machine and the behaviour of the PlusNet router.  Sigh....

Given that I now have a workaround that does not leave me prone to Google watching my every web-movement, I am less inclined to keep on (and on) with this, as I have other Outlook-related problems to get sorted, and a sort of a life to lead.

Tony

[#14]

Questions:

• What xDSL product are you on (specifically are you 20CN)?
• Do you have a fixed IP address?
• Does the slow down have a time of day variability?

[#15]

Sorry for slow response, but I have a mountain of things to catch up with, and the workaround is getting me by.

Product:  I honestly don't know.  I'm on copper broadband (BT line) in central London and I get almost 20Mbps on a speed check, so that probably lets you deduce what you want.

Fixed IP address:  No.

Time of day:  No difference, as far as I can tell.  As the snail said when the police asked for a description of the tortoise that mugged him: "I   don't   know.    It   all   happened   so   quickly."