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My disconnects

Luzern
Hero
Posts: 4,645
Thanks: 832
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Is that a user defined graph, OJ? I've never managed to set one up Embarrassed Smiley
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Luzern
Hero
Posts: 4,645
Thanks: 832
Fixes: 8
Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Mods do you think this thread and Last 24 hours should be amalgamated?
Second drop this afternoon/ evening, grrr. This time modulation has downgraded to G.992.3 annex A
and attenuation to 43 from 46.
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: My disconnects

Merged as requested
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,049
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: My disconnects

Quote from: lucerne
Second drop this afternoon/ evening, grrr. This time modulation has downgraded to G.992.3 annex A
and attenuation to 43 from 46.

What happened to sync speed alongside that, presumably somewhat slower?
To move this forward you really do need to carry out the checks in the dropping connection guide including plugging the router into the test socket (via a filter) to confirm drops still occur.
For the different-filter check; as long as the spares you have are the rat tail type there shouldn't be a need to purchase new ones.
David
Luzern
Hero
Posts: 4,645
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Hi! Smiley Afternoon sync up from 5389 to 5827, evening to 5024(g992.3); now back to g992.5 (forced) 4731.
Thanks for tip re filters.Now somewhat OT Undecided
I'm curious why the tailed ones are more unlikely to fail, and, if there is no way to test a filter, how one can know from a change that produces no performance variation, that both are not good/bad.  Grin
Edit: now 5531kbps, margin 9dB
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Luzern
Hero
Posts: 4,645
Thanks: 832
Fixes: 8
Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Have changed both microfilters. #1 is on the upstairs extension. The router only is connected to that. There is a slave DECT phone, not requiring connection to the socket. #2 is in the main socket. The answerphone base only is fitted to that.
The changes of each had to be roughly an hour apart, and disconnection was via router interface, power on throughout. Have I done it right?
The sync.results are

Filter #1 Old 5531
Filter #1 New 5779 (+248 kbps)
Filter #2 Old 5779
Filter #2 new 5779 (no change)

Is the increase of 248 kbps significant?
The test socket is not advisable for now, as wife is off colour and won't appreciate my efforts.
@Old Jim My question to you 18/03/2011, 18:18 have you an answer? Smiley
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
pengyou
Grafter
Posts: 96
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Oldjim's graph is one of the standard graphs available in the full version of RouterStats.
I don't think RouterStats-Lite can display that type of graph.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,049
Thanks: 1,361
Fixes: 73
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: My disconnects

Quote from: lucerne
Thanks for tip re filters.Now somewhat OT Undecided
I'm curious why the tailed ones are more unlikely to fail, and, if there is no way to test a filter, how one can know from a change that produces no performance variation, that both are not good/bad.  Grin

It's not so much that rat-tailed filters are less likely to fail, generally they are regarded as better quality from a functional perspective - ie not working is a surprise. If replaced it is a question of probability whether an unused one taken from its box could be defective. Try a further one and the odds lengthen further. One can't rule it out, but unless manufacture quality control is poor it's reasonable to assume any problem is something else.
Quote from: lucerne
Have changed both microfilters. #1 is on the upstairs extension. The router only is connected to that. There is a slave DECT phone, not requiring connection to the socket. #2 is in the main socket. The answerphone base only is fitted to that.
The changes of each had to be roughly an hour apart, and disconnection was via router interface, power on throughout. Have I done it right?
The sync.results are

Filter #1 Old 5531
Filter #1 New 5779 (+248 kbps)
Filter #2 Old 5779
Filter #2 new 5779 (no change)

Is the increase of 248 kbps significant?

I doubt the increase in sync speed of 248kbps is significant, it probably reflects a change in SNR margin (from above target down to target), but you haven't provided those figures so I can only guess.
If I wanted to change the filter to which the router is attached what I would have done is disconnect from Plusnet using the router's web interface, pause for a minute then switch off the router. Pause again then unplug the old filter and connect through the new one. Now wait at least 5 minutes then switch on the router again and bring things up. The aim is to give the DLM no excuse to think that the connection dropped. However don't do this more than twice an hour. It's all mind games but best we can do.
When changing filters on other sockets check noise margin before, then unplug the filter and check noise margin again. If the value changes significantly it indicates a problem. When the filter is disconnected it is immaterial whether it is faulty or not and interference from equipment unplugged and switched off is eliminated.
To avoid interference between the DECT handset and router keep them well apart. Again checking noise margin behaviour is an indicator of problems.
Even with the full version of Routerstats, the graph Oldjim posted isn't available from the TG585. Best one can do is set up a User Selection to pick up the CRC and HEC values. I suggest you do move to the full version. Select the TG585v6 and v7 login radio button it works fine with the v8. Configure graphs and captures as described in this post.
David
Luzern
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Posts: 4,645
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

With #1 filter change the margin dropped by 0.5 only.
Slave DECT is on desk 30+ inches from router. Router is on top of tower, which in turn is on floor.
I'll have another bash following your advice.
Edit: Bash had
Put old filter back in #1 sync down from 5779 to 5560, noise from 8.5 to 9
Removed filter from #2 plugged in answerphone, sync 491, noise 29.5!
After placing old #2 and phone lead in main socket and rebooting, sync 5075, noise 9
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,049
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: My disconnects

Was that low sync with the base station plugged directly into the phone socket (unfiltered)? Pushing ones luck to do that.
Does the top of the tower get warm? Does noise margin change if you lift the router well clear of the tower?
Sorry if this result has been posted previously, but does the noise margin change if you simply unplug the base station from the #2 filter (temporarily disconnect it from the phone line)? It it does you could try double-filtering the base station.
David
Luzern
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Posts: 4,645
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Quote from: spraxyt
Was that low sync with the base station plugged directly into the phone socket (unfiltered)?
Senior moment! :o. Yes!
Quote
Does the top of the tower get warm? Does noise margin change if you lift the router well clear of the tower?
Been on since 7.30 and no warming  perceptible, same for router positioning.
Quote
... does the noise margin change if you simply unplug the base station from the #2 filter (temporarily disconnect it from the phone line)? ....
Not that I could detect.
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,049
Thanks: 1,361
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: My disconnects

I think you've tried most things now, no significant effects identified on stats. Main question though is whether the connection still drops.
If it does, do you have an alternative router to try? And there's trying the test socket when you are able to do so.
David
Luzern
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

Coincidence? Undecided The water may be muddied, but this evening I became aware of noise on the phone side. I am somewhat hard of hearing, 2 aids, so it may have been there before. Around time that son phoned noise shot up 2-3 dB and still is higher than what is normal at this hour. Asked OH of she had been aware of crackling; answer it had been there a week. They never tell you the important things...grr.
Tomorrow it's out with the old anlogue answer phone and DECT powered off, before I go further with the BB side.
Useful course?
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,049
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: My disconnects

That's likely to be good news, noise on the phone line (when using a corded phone) is something Openreach find easier to fix. One has to prove it is there when a corded phone is plugged into the test socket (via a filter), preferably with the router *not* plugged in alongside.
For testing one can dial 17070 and select option 2; the line should be quiet (no significant noises, might be a very slight background hum). You might find it difficult to do that test effectively yourself. Water could be ingressing into a junction somewhere causing corrosion, and making/receiving a call temporarily cleans the joint.
Is your phone service provided by Plusnet? Easier if it is since discussing a broadband fault and phone fault with the same agent shouldn't generate buck-passing. If your phone is with someone else never mention a broadband fault to them, and definitely don't have one if asked. The BT systems won't allow a broadband fault and phone fault to be open at the same time; the broadband one should be closed. Fixing the phone is likely to fix broadband.
Smiley
David
Luzern
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Posts: 4,645
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: My disconnects

@ sprayxt Thanks for the ongoing help
With the corded phone crackles have largely gone according to wife.
In the meantime I have an snswer to my question on interleaving status. It's auto, but from PN end they notice intermittency.
I have to do a series of tests one requirement bothers me a little
That you have tested the connection with only the router connected and all other phone devices disconnected.										
Does that mean that until Help Centre do their further tests, the phone has to remain disconnected. Or is it mere confirmation that it was done?
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.