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Madasafish

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Grafter
Posts: 614
Registered: ‎04-11-2008

Re: Madasafish

Quote from: Oldjim
Not the way they designed it   Crazy although supposedly that is being changed - in about October I think

Hi Oldjim,
Do you know if this possible change is for all exchanges or is it just for the upgraded ones i.e.  21CN ?
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Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,033
Fixes: 62
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Madasafish

Judging by the testing which seems to be only on 21CN i suspect that 20CN will be left behind as it uses different equipment
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Grafter
Posts: 295
Registered: ‎24-05-2011

Re: Madasafish

Jojo, you would have to see our layout at home, but please believe me it is totally no go to have the router and phone base station in the hallway to utilise the 'clean' master socket - no power and nowhere to safely locate them. And likewise totally no go to run cables between the hall and study (10m + with no clear run). It is one of the cases where the master socket is just in the most inappropriate and stupid of places.
I fear I have 3 options:
1.  Put up with stone age DL speeds forever
2.  Get BT to move the master socket - how much £  I don't know
3.  Wait till my Madasafish contract ends and go with wireless Village Networks (5meg guaranteed for £30 a month)
What other options do I have?  Sad
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Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,033
Fixes: 62
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Madasafish

Even if you connect to the test socket your IP profile will still only be 1500kbps so no major improvement.
The options are
To move house to closer to the exchange
Accept that that is all you are going to get
Go with Wireless Village.
Regarding the Madasafish contract I have no idea as to the length or the tie in.
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Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,063
Thanks: 1,369
Fixes: 75
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: Madasafish

Quote from: alex7127
I fear I have 3 options:
1.  Put up with stone age DL speeds forever
2.  Get BT to move the master socket - how much £  I don't know
3.  Wait till my Madasafish contract ends and go with wireless Village Networks (5meg guaranteed for £30 a month)
What other options do I have?  Sad

You could always try some of the checks I suggested in Reply #22. Might help identify why the sync speed differs between the test socket and your extension. The problem might even be with the master socket face plate itself.
David
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Grafter
Posts: 295
Registered: ‎24-05-2011

Re: Madasafish

Last week I did temp move router to master socket and plugged it in the test socket and router could still only see approx 1800Mbps. BT say that the absolute maximum would never exceed 2000Mbps......due to the massive distance between my house and the exchange.  It is my fault for living in the countryside! Crazy
My house extn. in my study where router is, is only seeing approx 1600Mbps. This 200 difference in the grand scheme of things is nothing and I am led to beleive is only normal to lose this amount in the internal house telephone wiring (if you had a good Speed in the first place 2000, 5000, 10,000 or 15,000Mbps etc this 200 Mbps is negligable). It is just unfortunate that I have got, at the absolute max 1400Mbps over the past 6 years.
I give in! Put up or shut up I think they say.
Any of you in the industry or in the 'industry know'.......what does the future hold for people like me? My scenario is this:
I Live on a modern housing  estate of approx 300 houses built circa between 2002-2004 (postcode MK182FG). The estate was built in the middle of nowhere (rural Buckinghamshire)......therefore we have no
phone exchange.......we are hooked up to an exchange in another nearby village called Steeple Claydon......this, as a direct as the crow flys, distance is nearly 3km away, so actual physical line length will be much longer, following roads etc?
I am prone to being simplistic but why not........Run Fibre-Optic cable between the exchange and our estate, have a sort of junction box in the estate for the 300 homes and wire in all our phone lines into this?  Hey presto job done! Grin If this is possible why didn't they do this in the first place?
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Community Veteran
Posts: 1,412
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Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: Madasafish

Quote from: alex7127
I am prone to being simplistic but why not........Run Fibre-Optic cable between the exchange and our estate, have a sort of junction box in the estate for the 300 homes and wire in all our phone lines into this?  Hey presto job done! Grin If this is possible why didn't they do this in the first place?

What? Like this one?
Well, that looks like a BT PCP to me, and is likely to be the junction box you wanted. If you ever got fibre in that exchange, and BT deployed FTTC to your estate, then this is the box that would gain a fibre twin.
So the only question is "Why Not?" I guess it will be all economics on that one.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
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Grafter
Posts: 295
Registered: ‎24-05-2011

Re: Madasafish

You use a bit of industry jargon here Huh
I dont understand some of it......but is that ancient green box  where all 300 phone line go in to and then from there off to the Steeple Claydon exchange? That Green box is about 5 mins walk from my house in Calvert, our new estate was called Calvert Green.
Is the technology inside that box as old as the outer casing I wonder???
Is optic being rolled out all over the country bit by bit? If so is there any way of telling if and when Stepple Claydon exchange will be upgraded? One step further.....would 'they' ever run optic cable to the green box, to serve in the region of 300 homes? Would that be viable from an economic point of view.
Or would we on this estate be part of the 'tiny percentage' that does not and will not ever get fast fixed line bb?
From a media headline point of view if a couple of percent fall into this catagory then on paper it looks ok........but if you work out how many houses/businesses from a number value fall into that 'small percentage' then it runs into tens if not 100' s of thousands of affected customers.
Is it a two tier society here or what?  Live in the city and get super fast, fixed line bb......live in the countryside and expect to get really slow bb. That really is not right. In this politicaly correct society we live in......you cant treat a muslim differently from a christian, nor a disabled person from an able bodied person etc etc etc.
I am having a Victor Mildrew moment here Crazy I DON'T BELEIVE IT!
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Community Veteran
Posts: 1,412
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Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: Madasafish

I'll do the political bit first, then get back to the technical  Wink
Quote from: alex7127
Is it a two tier society here or what?  Live in the city and get super fast, fixed line bb......live in the countryside and expect to get really slow bb. That really is not right. In this politicaly correct society we live in......you cant treat a muslim differently from a christian, nor a disabled person from an able bodied person etc etc etc.
I am having a Victor Mildrew moment here Crazy I DON'T BELEIVE IT!

Seriously, yes - it is a 2-tier society, but you knew that anyway, right?
While BT have an obligation to install a phone line, they're not under an obligation to do it for free. Take a look at this story of a £53k quote.
And there is no obligation to provide broadband. The government aim to have that - setting a 2Mbps minimum - by 2015, and will subsidise the places having the worst problems - but even then, the subsidies (and obligation) will be shared across many companies and technologies (including copper, fibre, cable, mobile and satellite).
There are still parts of the countryside you can't get gas either. And it is all down to economics - a company will provide a service for a profit. If it isn't profitable, it doesn't get provided. Eventually, the unprofitable areas do get covered - but only when the other service areas are effectively providing a subsidy to pay for that cover.
Unfortunately, while you can't be discriminated against racially, religiously, or on disability, you can be discriminated against financially.
Back to safer ground... the technology...
Quote
You use a bit of industry jargon here Huh

The PCP bit? It means "Primary Connection Point" in BT's jargon - which are usually green street-side cabinets. And yes, that ancient cabinet can indeed hold the connections for 300-odd phone lines, but 400 is an oft-quoted number. No electronics, no technology, just a lot of connection joints in the various distribution cables (the huge ones going back to the exchange, or the smaller ones going to different locations in the locality - even though there looks to be only the one direction.
There will also be secondary distribution points further into the network - usually under manhole covers.
Quote
Is optic being rolled out all over the country bit by bit? If so is there any way of telling if and when Stepple Claydon exchange will be upgraded?

That is indeed exactly how fibre is being distributed around the majority of the country right now: "Fibre to the Cabinet" (or FTTC), bit-by-bit, with a new cabinet placed next to the old one. The new cabinet gets the elecronics that sends a VDSL2 signal (a new, faster variant than the ADSL we currently use) to the home, and the fibre connection back to BT's core network (usually back to your own exchange, but not always).
There is another technology: "Fibre to the Premises" (aka FTTP), where fibre comes all the way to your house. BT are further behind in their trials of FTTP, and have announced that, at present, a location will only get FTTC or FTTP, not a choice. The "coming soon" list of exchange has very few that include FTTP. Yet.
You can find pictures of the way BT see their street networks looking with these new technologies: Local Architecture
The list of deployed, "coming soon", and "coming a bit later" exchanges are found here: Openreach's "where and when". But even when they announce an exchange, not every cabinet will be included. However, judging by the Samknows details for Steeple Claydon, I suspect it isn't very high on BT's list, and may never be reached within the current plans.
This means that your needs will be better met by the government's plans for rural areas - blogged (and commented about) here in December. BDUK is the government arm that is responsible for doling out the funds, so you might want to look at their website.
It is a government initiative, and, like most things, probably needs talking about with local councils, and local action groups. I've no idea whether you have anything in your area, but there is an action group in MK: http://www.mkbag.org/
Quote
One step further.....would 'they' ever run optic cable to the green box, to serve in the region of 300 homes? Would that be viable from an economic point of view.  Or would we on this estate be part of the 'tiny percentage' that does not and will not ever get fast fixed line bb?

Almost everyone in the country has their line going through cabinets exactly like that - with 300-400 connections. So a cabinet like that certainly can be economic. And looking at most of the houses there, I'd turn that into a "definitely"  Wink
But the exchange probably doesn't cut the mustard. BT seem to be aiming at much larger exchanges - ours isabout 10k, and is probably still a little small.
BUT... look at the bottom for an alternative solution - that might work for your cabinet...
Quote
Live in the city and get super fast, fixed line bb......live in the countryside and expect to get really slow bb.

It really comes down to how much it costs to get fast broadband to your house. I've attached a graph I found online that gives some idea of how costs differ from dense cities to sparse rural areas - and your estate/exchange probably fits into the tallest bar. I don't know whether that costing graph is for the simpler FTTC deployment, or the more expensive (but more future-proof) FTTP project, but it shows the problem that rural areas have to overcome. Over £3000 for every home instead of £300!
That is the estimate by some high-flying (and high-charging) analysts.
But Rutland Telecom have other numbers in mind. They installed a fibre solution for a village (I think FTTC-based solution), and their website quotes figures of £25k - £50k for a cabinet, and that they can make the numbers work for 50-100 customers per cabinet. Take a look at their website.
Going down that route will take some serious community action though...
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
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Rising Star
Posts: 998
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Registered: ‎05-11-2008

Re: Madasafish

Quote from: WWWombat
There are still parts of the countryside you can't get gas either. And it is all down to economics - a company will provide a service for a profit. If it isn't profitable, it doesn't get provided. Eventually, the unprofitable areas do get covered - but only when the other service areas are effectively providing a subsidy to pay for that cover.

We don't have mains gas in our village. When I moved in I was told that British Gas had once told the residents that if they each coughed up £1000 they would provide it. Of course that didn't happen, despite it making good economic sense (the alternative LPG that most in the village use is a lot more expensive). BUT, a fibre cabinet has been installed in the village, which is about 3 miles from the exchange in the neighbouring town, so that must have made economic sense for someone and we can now get much improved speeds as a result. So there is hope!
Brilliant post, WWWombat.
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Grafter
Posts: 295
Registered: ‎24-05-2011

Re: Madasafish

WWWombat -  Very detailed and informative, it is all clear now Smiley
KevinG / WWWombat - Same here, the estate was not on the mains gas. Therfore a company called Independant Pipelines Limited paid for and ran the pipe from the nearest main gas pipe. Each household on the estate pays this company in the region of £10 a quarter for the the pipe/supply service. Once again it came down to our very rural location (which we chose to move to), and through making this choice I am knew and am only too happy to pay for this gas pipeline to supply gas to my house. Being on mains gas is far cheaper than using Oil or LPG. One day this company will recoup it's initial costs and outlay for laying this pipe and will be into clear profit territory. Can't the same logic be applied with providing us with a solution to our poor 1Mb bb service? I would be only too happy to pay a few quid extra a month, and I know that the vast majority of people living on this estate would too.
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Community Veteran
Posts: 1,412
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Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: Madasafish

Brilliant - that gas pipeline has to be a perfect model for you - it shows that there are sufficient householders on that estate who understand the economics of living there (ie it costs extra to get services delivered out there) *and* are willing to pay that bit extra. They also understand what it means to get a 3rd-party company involved in delivering the service.
That link to Rutland Telecom had a couple of quotes:
Quote
We have recently costed several FTTC projects in rural areas where end users simply pay a small connection fee and a monthly rental of just £30-£40. These communities typically [had] download speeds around 300kbps and our solution will deliver speeds up to 40Mbps from street cabinets with 10Mbps upload speeds possible.
...
Delivery of a solution is typically viable for us, providing we get 50-100 customers per cabinet, at £30/month including line rental, fast broadband, free calls and local service & support. The solution must be viable which is why we insist on a minimum number of registrations before proceeding.

It certainly isn't as low as Plusnet's standard Phone+Broadband package (is that £18.50pm after freebies?), but I guess for most people that £30 would be about a £10 per month increase - so almost competitive with the FTTC packages at BT Infinity, once you take line rental into account and bear in mind the new speeds. Would there be enough people willing to pay that kind of extra?
If you think so, then you might want to get an action group setup for your estate - or find out if there is another one already going. I gave the link to the MK one, which might help, or might at least know who to point you at for contacts.
BTW - I'm impressed at someone having managed to end up building an estate like that, located there. Was it an old industrial site, or a quarry?
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
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Grafter
Posts: 295
Registered: ‎24-05-2011

Re: Madasafish

I think an action group is the way forward you know. I am sure there would be a good number who would go fo it.
Also....you are right....this estate is built on the old site of the London Brick Company!
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Rising Star
Posts: 998
Thanks: 11
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Registered: ‎05-11-2008

Re: Madasafish

Quote from: alex7127
... a company called Independant Pipelines Limited paid for and ran the pipe from the nearest main gas pipe. Each household on the estate pays this company in the region of £10 a quarter for the the pipe/supply service

Bargain - that's less than I pay to rent the LPG tank. I'd never heard of that option, but having just paid multiple 000s for a new LPG boiler this would not be a good time! Sorry, getting a bit OT for a Broadband and Routers thread.
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Grafter
Posts: 295
Registered: ‎24-05-2011

Re: Madasafish

Hi, me again (groan!)
Well speed was in the 1100-1200Mbps for  a bit and had again started to drop off.
Attatched: recent speedtester and router stats.
Am I reading the speedtester result right in that it would appear that perhaps my IP Line profile is stupidly low at 1000Mbps? as my DL speed is at 997?
Why does my speed go up and down so much ALL the time.
Lastly I have heard that some routers are better than others for people like me that live 3 light years away from the exchange. My currnet one is a Linksys WAG54G2.
Crazy