Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
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Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
21-11-2009 10:31 AM
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Anyway, thanks for the info and sorry for the confusion.
Could it indeed be an RF3 in that box on your neighbours line?
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
21-11-2009 1:30 PM
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Now, that's interesting you should mention about the OpenReach NTE5a & I-plate, because they do have a common-mode filter in them, but as far as I'm aware the Filtered Faceplates do not have a common-mode filter, & Jules was already using a Filtered FacePlate. Also, it's that long ago since I saw an RF3, I can't remember what is in them or the spec.
@Mal
Whilst your theory is sound, you need to remember that the field strength could still be high enough that with a bad joint somewhere (which there may be on Jules line) or a small bit of poorly designed circuit, or a semiconductor device that happens to be sensitive to a given (band of) frequencies - strange effects can occur!
@Jules
You aren't looking in the right place, I'll see if I can find you a picture. The significant bit is that it is OpenReach badged not BT Piper badged, can you confirm about yours and your neighbour's NTE5. Also you didn't happen to mention about this double socket and the few feet of cable - how many feet and what type of cable is it? Nor did you mention about the 33Kv lines behind you where's Mand's persuading stick
I know you said there was no difference in the figures when plugging into the test socket, but all the figures apart from a few kbps difference in sync would have had to have been identical - but never mind now.
Jelv's points are also valid, might explain any unexpected variations (or spikes) at anytime of day - the loading on the powerlines will vary during the day (and hence the radiation), depending on what it's supplying.
Anyway, I'm keen to see your latest stats, can you post some current ones as soon as you can?
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
21-11-2009 3:18 PM
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But as we have both said before - radio interference is not an exact science all the time - trial and error are needed to resolve problems - if indeed it is that in this case.
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
21-11-2009 6:03 PM
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Not sure of nextdoors, BT piper I think but they are away at the moment so cant check.
I forgot about the HV cables until the other day sorry. Line runs across field behind me, about 300metres from my house. 240V comes in via overhead from a transformer about 600 metres away.If it makes any difference, earthing is PME (T-N-C-S), there is a pole in my garden with a PME earth bond on it and a big earth rod at the bottom of it.
Phone line comes from front of house.
Double socket is around 2 feet away from router. Wired into downstairs ring main with 2.5sq.mm cable and sunk flush into wall. Socket is steel not plastic face. Only things plugged in are psu for router and phone base station (and unplugging phone psu doesn't change noise figs). Cable from adsl filtered face plate to router is screened high quality one.
Inside the RF3 is a small pcb. there are three screw terminals, a three way idc and a small core with two copper coils wond onto it. My dropwire is connected to the screw terminals marked A and B, a short length of cat5 links the idc terminals marked A and B to the A and B on the back of the NTE5.
Current stats (17:45hrs and dark outside) :-
Connection speed 2496kbps (downstream) / 448kbps (upstream) - router resynced today for some reason - dont know why as wasn't here but very windy today so could be power related - previously 2304kbps
Noise 9.0dB (downstream) 14.0dB (upstream) - router shows 12.0db at time of reconnect so not dlm dropping margin
Attenuation 58.2dB (downstream) / 31.5dB (upstream)
Power 17.5dBm (downstream) / 11.9dBm (upstream)
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
23-11-2009 5:55 PM
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Many thanks.
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
23-11-2009 7:01 PM
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I was just being a bit of a pedant about the double socket I don't expect that it will have any effect whatsoever. But it's always nice to have as complete a picture as possible in these situations.
If I'd known about all the transmitters 4-5 miles away and the 33kV line, I think my view would have been shove some filtering in, and would have been much more upbeat about the benefits of an RF3. Well I'm glad it's made the significant improvement it appears to have.
I guess that because your overhead line is a different length to your neighbour's, it will be "tuned" at slightly different frequencies. I'd also guess that a lot of the noise may be coupled in from the powerlines, which themselves are nice antennae picking up all sorts, never mind the inherent problems that jelv mentioned.
As for the grey box I forgot to mention before, if it is about 5" across and 4" down and not quite rectangular, it will be just where some connections with jelly crimps are made (normally).
Let's hope things stay nice and stable. What sort of time did that last resync occur? Out of curiosity what are the current stats like?
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
23-11-2009 8:31 PM
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My fault entirely re transmitters and HV transmission, its like most things, you forget about local things that just seem part of the furniture. At least we seem to have got there in the end. I'm glad that with all the info you have come to the same kind of conclusion as me re the noise. I know I'm never going to get a blinding speed but enough to give a stable 2500profile will keep me happy.
(Checked mothers the other day, 8192sync, 15dB SNR and 2dB attenuation - shame she hardly uses her computer, hence on PN value)
I think you may be right about the box, it is certainly grey and around the dimensions you give, cant measure as its on top of the pole but looking at the diameter of the pole, I would say its about the size you give.
The last resync occurred around 13:05GMT on 21/11/2009 and it resynced at 2496kbps with 12db SNR.
Current stats as of 20:30Hrs 23/11/2009
Connection Speed 2496Kbps (Down) / 448Kbps (Up)
Noise Margin 9.0dB (Down) / 14.0dB (Up)
Attenuation 58.2dB (Down) / 31.5dB (Up)
Power 17.5dBm (Down) / 11.9dBm (Up)
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
23-11-2009 9:11 PM
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Quote from: julesandtash Noise 12.0dB (Downstream) / 14.0dB (Upstream)
Quote from: julesandtash Noise Margin 9.0dB (Down) / 14.0dB (Up)
Is DLM actually working?!?! Is that actually an unrequested downwards SNRM change, or is your downstream margin just fluctuating?
B.
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
23-11-2009 9:40 PM
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Quote Hopefully if I still only get a 3dB drop at night then.................
I had to read back just to double check, but sadly no.
Re:Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
24-11-2009 9:14 AM
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Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
24-11-2009 5:14 PM
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That was with a resync at 5pm to ensure that I dont get instability due to a falling margin at night.
Interestingly, they seem to have turned interleaving off as my router now says fast rather than Interleaved.
Current stats :-
Connection Speed 2976Kbps (Down) / 448Kbps (Up)
Noise Margin 6.0dB (Down) / 15.0dB (Up)
Attenuation 57.9dB (Down) / 31.5dB (Up)
Power 17.3dBm (Down) / 11.9dBm (Up)
When BT reset the line this morning and caused the router to resync it had connected at 3392Kbps but margin had fallen to 4dB this evening, I decided to go for an evening resync to trade a bit of speed for increased stability. Besides there was no point in staying at that sync speed as its top end of,but still within, the 2500 IP profile range. Better to sync at the bottom of that range and have a more stable profile.
Thanks for all the help and advice, and particularly to Chris for getting BT to sort things.
/
One lastquestion, what do people think about interleaving, now its been turned off should I leave it off or ask for it to be on
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
25-11-2009 1:27 PM
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Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
25-11-2009 7:11 PM
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I guess there were too many errors on fast path for its liking.
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
28-11-2009 4:49 PM
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The result below, taken a couple of minutes ago, is the best speed test result I have ever had since having broadband......
Thanks to everyone for their help and ideas.
Re: Line far worse than my neighbour - same cable on same pole
25-01-2010 2:29 PM
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I got rid of the first 2700HGV (which had had a couple of different firmwares on) to a friend and bought another one on eBay - sealed and brand new.
Plugged it in and used the javascript line to put my plusnet details in. Worked fine
Just before christmas it then upgraded itself to the BT version 6 firmware which caused me some concenrn but, to be honest, is better.
The router remembered my details and immidiately connected back to plusnet. The user interface is nicer and the router is definitely more stable.
I have now been connected at 2848Kbs for 23days. No drops at all and a nice solid 2500 profile.
Speed result as below.
Thats with a 9dB taget SNR (well last time it connected anyway, ie the 2nd January 2010). I have had a look in the router page at various times and have seen SNR drop to 5dB at times so I've still got a fair swing on my line but at least I have a decent connection now so I am letting sleeping dogs lie.
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