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Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

To answer you point about the phone service, no that shouldn't have made any difference. And as the email in any event was before 2pm, a change of phone service would be what happened at 2pm.
The stats that you've posted are the typical DSL stats, but your will also find errors listed somewhere, and the Uptime, also important when looking at errors.
As far as monitoring goes, I was thinking of running a program called RouterStatsLite which can graph the SNRM. Obviously the computer has to be on to do that.
If you want to give it a go, I'll give you the link and some setup guidance.
Townman
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Quote from: Anotherone
Thanks for that info Matthew, that's most helpful. It certainly shows that something is causing a lot of variation in the SNRM.

++1
Matthew,
I'll add my thanks too - that info helps us to assist MrG further - looks like it is going to be a slog with RouterStats and a hunt for local interference before doing anything further looking at potential line faults.  That said do you have any observation about the inconsistent attenuation figures?
Cheers,
Kevin

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

ejs
Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎10-06-2010

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

I thought 2pm on 9th June was when the 7300G was replaced by the 7800N.
The 7800N appeared to operate at a similar speed and noise margin as the 2704N did before the 7300G was put on.
Some devices tend to achieve higher speeds and operate with higher error rates and less stability than other devices which aim for more stability but consequently less speed, but the difference is too large to explain the difference here. I suppose it's also possible that the TrendChip based 7300G is ignoring the DLM configured target SNRM of 15 and just connecting with a 6db margin, behaving the same as would a modem with a manually tweaked DS margin.
Townman
Superuser
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Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Cheers ejs,
That's really useful detail and insight... and clearly complicates what we believe we are seeing.
Kevin

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Thanks for pointing out the graph was yesterday ejs, I was about to post (reply #44) that it might have been swapping to the 7800N that caused DLM to act, if it hadn't been done gracefully, but that was before Matthews post which I then saw and deleted that part of my comment thinking it was today which was rather daft as I'd already posted yesterday about that  Embarrassed
However the Target was 9 db before that not 6db.
MrG
Grafter
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎28-05-2015

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Thanks to everyone for their help so far.
As regards timing, I believe it was about 3pm on 9th when I swapped the 7300 out for the 7800.  However, during the swap out there was no router connected for about one hour while I sorted out wiring etc.
Anotherone - I'm more than happy to RouterStatsLite a go if someone can tell me how to use it!  No problem with leaving the computer on.
Should I try just putting the 7300 back in?
Anotherone
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Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

I would leave things as they are for the moment, we need a bit of consistency to see what is happening.
I'll post up links and info in a second, one question, did you notice and performance problems start before you moved from Virgin/TT?
MrG
Grafter
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎28-05-2015

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

OK
I was with Virgin for many years and for the past year or so the DS has been a pretty consistent 1.6-1.7Mbps all of the time 24/7.  I was forcibly moved to Talktalk on 23rd March.
Although the speed remained pretty similar during the day, in the evening and weekends it would drop to about 0.4Mbps, despite the IP Profile still being at 1.75 Mbps.  Obviously the Talktalk network was suffering severe congestion in our area
This is what prompted my quest to find a better ISP - hence Plusnet.  Certainly with Plusnet there seems to be no congestion issues.
Anotherone
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Some poor individuals have some, mainly Fibre - BT network problems Roll_eyes
Download RouterStatsLite from here. I don't know which version of Windows you are running, but whichever, I'd still install it in your Root directory (C:\) so when prompted by the installer change it to C:\ so it installs to C:\RouterStats-Lite   this should avoid any issues with permissions/privileges.
You can create another folder somewhere if you want to save the Captures and Log file in a different folder from the program (that is/would be my choice), perhaps in your Shared Documents, maybe call it RSLdata.
Below is my suggested setup -
Do not click on the Start Arrow, bottom left, yet! But it ought to automatically open at the Setup tab the first time anyway. Maximise the RouterStats Window.
First go to the Setup tab, then the Router tab and select the modem/router, select Billion Bipac 7800N (not the LLU one)
The URL tab should show the path where you get the stats, tick the box for the full path if applicable.
On the Login tab, there should be a tick in the box 'Router requires you to login' for most modem/routers.
The Username will show the default one, which you may have changed.
The password may be a default one (unless changed by you) or the one provided with the router originally - note, this is not your broadband password.
On the Graph tab, initially, leave ticks in the Adjust axis automatically boxes, you may want to alter the settings later. Tick Noise Margin Vertical Axis 'Plot average value of previous 50 points', but not the Connection Speed average. Remember to click Apply on any you change (and any other time you make changes).
In the Sample Interval box choose 'Sample router every 10 seconds' and 'Points per page 720' and click Apply.
Next, go to the Capture tab. Define the folder where you want to save the Captured graphs, this could be the folder I suggested in Shared Documents - RSLdata - or another of your choice. Tick 'Capture noise margin graph images', also tick 'Capture part-graphs when RouterStats-Lite closes'. Tick the other two graphs if you wish. (Note - the Ping capture setting is not saved on RSL close).
Go to the Log tab, type the filename you want for the log, e.g. RSLite.txt & then browse to the folder you want to save it in, suggest the same as the graphs, when selected, the full pathname will appear in the box. Comma separated values is selected by default, and log every 1 sample.
Nothing to change on the Appearance tab.
On the System tab, tick 'Minimise to system tray', 'Prompt before closing', 'Show noise margin on tray icon' & 'Show tooltip hints'. If you want the Ping plotter, tick that as well. On the PIng tab you need to specify the IP address to ping - try 212.159.13.49 - one of Plusnet's ntp servers.
You can now go to the Noise Margin tab and click on the green Start button. You should see a Green Camera icon on the LHS showing capture is active.
If you  right click on the graph, the drop down menu shows a tick against Capture. You will also see some other options you can use at any time, (similar on the other graphs) but Tick 'Plot Upstream Noise'.
There is a minor bug in the last few versions where the ping Capture is not done on close, so if you want one, do a right click 'Capture now', also the ping capture settings are not retained on closure of RouterStatsLite (RSL).
Maximise the RouterStats window before Minimising it to the Tray. This ensures captures are at the full screen size showing the most detail (as far as the SNRM is concerned).
You can create shortcuts to the exe file and to the folder for your captured files and put them on your desktop if you wish.
There is a minor bug in the last few versions where the ping is not being Captured on close, so if you want one, do a right click Capture now.
Nor is the capture setting saved on RSL close.
Maximise the RouterStats window before Minimising it to the Tray. This ensures captures are at the full screen size showing the most detail (as far as the SNRM is concerned).
HTH.
MrG
Grafter
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎28-05-2015

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Thanks Anotherone
Got to go out now, so will do it in the morning
Anotherone
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Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

OK, post on how you go, and ask if you have any problems with it once running, or before if it's not running  :o.
MrG
Grafter
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎28-05-2015

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Right then.  RouterStats is up and running from 11.20 this morning.  This is the first graph.
I hope I've got it set up correctly.
Anotherone
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Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

That graph is displaying just what we need to see. Whether this remains constant throughout the day (& night) if you don't mind leaving it on, remains to be seen. If you've set things up correctly it should capture automatically every 2 hrs to your defined folder. You can capture a graph at any time by right clicking on the graph and selecting Capture Now, It will automatically get saved in the correct folder with a appropriate name,date & time.
I'll post some more comment in a moment.
Anotherone
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Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

OK the graph is showing a distinct steady regular pattern of interference. The sort of graph you should see at this time of day, I'll attach for you.
The interference will be what's causing the regular errors and this is what DLM will be responding to. It's now a case of finding out what's causing it. Usually these things are caused by faulty or poor design switch mode power supplies or other electronic/electrical apparatus.
Have you had any other new equipment lately apart from the modem/routers obviously?
Also need to check the things you have, which are the usual suspects - Sky boxes, TV sets, Monitors, mobile phones & chargers, low voltage halogen lighting PSUs, Compact Fluorescents, LED lamps, the list goes on...... Shocked
The easiest way to check your own stuff to start, is process of elimination, start by turning off your monitor for say 5 minutes. When you switch it back on see if the plot had changed, otherwise then turn off everything that you don't need on at this moment and see if the SNRM line goes flat. If it does, then switch things back on one at a time until you spot a culprit.
On the example graph, the RHS is what you'd hope to see in daytime a very few occasional little (0.1db) steps up and down. On the LHS of that graph you are seeing the tail-end of the night-time/dawn higher levels of noise (it's levelling off), which is much greater after dark.
Edit: forgot to mention that the flat US SNRM plot is typical of 20CN and is nothing unusual.
MrG
Grafter
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎28-05-2015

Re: Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

Hi Anotherone
I've now got several hours of monitoring and attach the graphs.
It looks like there's a regular pattern to the plot with peaks every 96 seconds.  I've tried unplugging nearly everything I can find, apart from the computer, with no real effect!
You will see that there's a period in one of the plots (....1716) where I moved the router (which actually sits in my meter cupboard) away from my electricity smart meter, as I suspected the radio signal for it.  This didn't make any difference.
I really do not know what to try next, as I had an acceptable DS until I put the 7800 in.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated