Introduction of Cessation Charge

[#1]

Quote from: pfgpowell

1) Is the charge appicable if I don't renew my contract with Plusnet and, for one reason or another, don't immediately want broadband quite yet but shall reconnect at a later date?

It's applied when your broadband is ceased, so yes.

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2) Is Plusnet now owned by BT?

We're owned by BT Retail, who also buy service from BT Wholesale, who in turn buy service from BT Openreach. The units are organisationally split, and through a rather complex process of regulation (called equivalence), we have exactly the same commercials as any other customer of BT Wholesale. BT are not allowed, by legislation, to treat us differently to any other company and again by legislation we are required to ensure our products are sustainable and not being subsidised by other parts of BT.
I appreciate people won't ever believe that the operational and business splits exist, and will see conspiracies in this. Understandable, of course, but not true.

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3) What was Ofcom's response when you informed it that you would be charging customers?

I posted Ofcom's view above - I've been looking for some other comment, but I really would encourage you as a consumer to exercise your right to ask them. As I say, if BT Wholesale didn't charge us this fee, we'd love not to have to pass it on.

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Specific replies from you would be simpler than me wading trough several pages of queries and replies, some of which are rather obscure. So a specific reply to THIS posting if that' all right with you, squire.

Absolutely - Forum discussions can get drawn out. We're more than happy to be direct in our answers, and we've certainly nothing to gain by the customer dissatisfaction that was inevitable as a result of this. Let me know if you don't think I've done that well enough.
Ian

[#2]

Quote from: puddy

If your partner dies or you get married or people split up you will be charged this fee  yes or no?

If for whatever reason that results in the broadband service being ceased, yes.

[#3]

Quote from: James_G

It seems you failed to read the thread - the charge is not one that PN are charging, its charged by the people who own and run our national telecomms infrastructure. PlusNet *have* to pass the charge on to us one way or another - thats how businesses work - they have to make money. Since us as customers ultimately have to pay, the real question is around the fairest mechanism for acheiving this. IMO, this is the fairest way to achieve this. If you don't like the idea of the one-off charge, you need to consider moving to an ISP who will add a little every month to your subscription to cover the cost instead, but of course, then if you never request a cease, you could pay many times over for it. If an ISP doesn't pass the charge on directly, its either their profits taking a hit, or their expenditure taking a hit (meaning a lower quality ADSL experience)

Wrong.
I do understand the point: that PN's supplier is charging them, PN must recover their cost or go out of business, the primary culprit is (the monopoly-ish) BT not PN, and that PN can chose how to recover the cost of running its business.
I not sure if you are responding as a moderator or an individual.
But, hey, thanks for the advice anyway and the lesson on how business works.....

[#4]

Quote from: Ian

Quote from: pfgpowell No, I should like  a specific reply: 1) Is the charge appicable if I don't renew my contract with Plusnet and, for one reason or another, don't immediately want broadband quite yet but shall reconnect at a later date? 2) Is Plusnet now owned by BT? And also 3) What was Ofcom's response when you informed it that you would be charging customers? Specific replies from you would be simpler than me wading trough several pages of queries and replies, some of which are rather obscure. So a specific reply to THIS posting if that' all right with you, squire. All these points have been covered above. For clarity however. 1) If your broadband service is ceased, be it via a cancellation, a house move, or for any other reason, a cease charge will apply. 2) PlusNet is owned by BT Retail. This charge is not being levied by BT Retail but by BT Wholesale. 3) Ofcom's response can be found in the post directly above your own.

You are being a little disingenuous. BT Retail and BT Wholesale might well be separate companies (almost always for accounting reasons) on paper, but the upshot is that Plusnet has a rather more intimate relationship with BT than your answer allows. As for being liable for a charge levied by Plusnet merely for ceasing to do business with the company, that is pretty bloody dubious and something the legality of which must now be tested. And I shall get in touch with Ofcom to see how we, the paying customers, can now test it.
It can be no coincidence that this tendency to treat customers rather shabbily began after BT took over (sorry, BT retail - we must maintain the fiction, mstn't we?)

[#5]

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If your partner dies or you get married or people split up you will be charged this fee  yes or no?

Only if there's a cease put on your line.  
I know some companies don't charge things like this on compassionate grounds if you're dealing with tying up someone's estate after a bereavement but there are others who do - it'd be up to PN how they deal with a bereavement where an ADSL cease is required.
In the other cases you mention - I'd expect you'd be charged if a cease ocurred.

[#6]

Hi pfgpowell
I think you're missing the point a little.
This is a charge from BT Wholesale, which is charging ALL ISPs who resell their service.  This is a considerable amount of the ISPs in the UK.
I'll be interested to hear how OFCOM respond to your query.

[#7]

Quote from: pfgpowell

(sorry, BT retail - we must maintain the fiction, mstn't we?)

Fiction you may think.  Unfortunately, you are wrong.
Yoda I am not.
B.

[#8]

It's probably also worth pointing our that BT Wholesale are also charging BT Retail for any ceases that they place.

[#9]

Quote from: pfgpowell

Finally, I seem to remember that Plusnet has been taken over by BT and so is now BT-owned. If that were the case, it would cast rather a different complexion on this matter. Can you confirm whether or not Plusnet was taken over by BT or whether, on the other hand, Plusnet is wholly independent of BT.

The following link may assist you in understanding the relationship.
http://www.plus.net/press/about_us.shtml
Within the BT structure, we fit under BT Retail.
http://www.btplc.com/Thegroup/Companyprofile/Companyprofile.htm
Each separate group of BT produce their own services, though this may mean they purchase products from other companies. In the eyes of Ofcom and regulation, the purchase of services from BT Openreach by another division like BT Wholesale, is treated as purchasing from a 3rd party company.
For further reading, the BT Openreach price list is also available, giving details of the applicable costs from then as they levy to BT Wholesale. BT Wholesale have brought these to service providers and in turn, the email and whole forum post is how through the chain, we have brought them to the customer.
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/pricing/llu/downloads/ORPL_LLU_Smpf.htm
Look under the "Modify, Cease, Amend, Cancel and Rejection Charges" section.
The pricing from BT Openreach is what every single Broadband provider in the UK will be impacted by regardless. For example LLU providers will be charged by BT Openreach direct, some providers will be charged by BT Wholesale if they obtain their services from there. Some providers will even be charged by another wholesaler, how they are charged will depend on how they provide it, ie via BT Wholesale or BT Openreach if LLU based.

[#10]

Quote from: puddy

If your partner dies or you get married or people split up you will be charged this fee  yes or no?

It is worth bearing in mind that these events don't normally result in a cease being place - My dad had to do this quite recently, and the Plusnet broadband wasn't ceased. I didn't have to pull any strings either. I do know it happens, and I'm not sure what the rules are. It looks like something we need a good clear support page on actually.
Ian

[#11]

Quote from: puddy

If plusnet staff dont know  the full breakdown of these charges how come you know? You dont work for plusnet puddy

Sorry to go back a few pages, but I've been out of the office.  The figures I quoted and Barry also used where from posts by James slightly further up from mine.  It was info that they'd already given us in this thread.
Plusnet are charging users £20 (inc VAT) for this.  They also said that this was because BT Wholesale where charging them £15.75 (exc VAT).  I simply added the VAT and subtracted the BTW charge from the End User charge to give me home much Plusnet are keeping for themselves.
Phil

[#12]

My understanding is that a change of legal name due to marriages, deaths and divorces should NOT result in a cease, there are however occasions when it does. Changing the name on a bill "because you want to", will normally result in a cease.
If or not it results in the correct action, will depend on how your voice provider actions the change. If they do not action it via the correct procedure, it may result in the cease anyway, which as a result would incur the charge quoted.
If your voice provider have caused an incorrect cease, then you would need to take this matter up with them.

[#13]

Am I correct in my understanding that the Broadband connection cannot be transferred to another person in the event tht the original customer dies, sells the house or wants to transfer the connection to a descendent or spouse?
The Phone connection is transferrable without having to pay the £115 connection charge even if there is a break in service of up to a year. Why then does the Broadband connection have to be ceased and reprovided?

[#14]

Quote from: Wheel_nut

Am I correct in my understanding that the Broadband connection cannot be transferred to another person in the event tht the original customer dies, sells the house or wants to transfer the connection to a descendent or spouse?

As quoted, it should be transferable. If this is actioned without a charge is however going to be dependant if or not the voice provider handle the transfer of line ownership properly.

[#15]

Quote from: Wheel_nut

Am I correct in my understanding that the Broadband connection cannot be transferred to another person in the event tht the original customer dies, sells the house or wants to transfer the connection to a descendent or spouse? The Phone connection is transferrable without having to pay the £115 connection charge even if there is a break in service of up to a year. Why then does the Broadband connection have to be ceased and reprovided?

If one of our customers dies, and their partner or spouse (or anyone else dealing with their affairs) wishes to take over their broadband account, we would allow this.
It is very rare in such circumstances that the service needs to be ceased and reprovided and as such there would normally be no charges for such a transfer to take place.
If the phoneline itself is disconnected, irrespective of the duration, the phone provider would normally instigate a "PSTN Cease" which will cease the broadband and other services. If this cease takes place then there would be a charge for the cease and reprovide.