Introduction of Cessation Charge

[#1]

So an engineer has to make a special journey to a telephone exchange.
I mean - it's not like one has to call at an exchange very often is it?
Disconnecting jumpers must take all of 30 seconds.
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[#2]

It's not just disconnecting them.
They also have to tidy up the cabling to ensure minimal work is needed when a reprovide is required.

[#3]

Quote from: Barry

Imagine the case where an engineer has to ferry out to one of the small Scottish islands to unjumper an ADSL connection following a cease.

All things being equal, a cease is a simple job for an engineer to do.  Unfortunately, all things are never equal.
OFCOM did a good job limiting new telephone installations to around £100 (it can cost a helluva lot more to have a new build house wired, but BT are only allowed to charge around £100)  They need to stick their oar in here.
B.

[#4]

Quote from: axisofevil

I am frankly amazed that an extra £15 is another to cause a substantial profitability hit

That is more profit than we make from plenty of customers over their entire life with us. I'm very happy to run through all of the wholesale economics we face here at any time - I think you might be very surprised at just how tight the margins are in offering residential broadband in the current market.
We don't actually expect you to care about that - whether we find life challenging or not should not be your problem. The thing is though, for every existing customer, we've offered products that over a lifetime are designed to make us some money, but which often are not profitable for many many months after sign-up (Bear in mind for most people we provide £20 - £30 worth of equipment and have paid BT an activation fee of more than that). If we have to bear the cease charge in mind when calculating these things, it does make a massive difference to the economics, and as Barry rightly points out we would have to find other ways to recoup that. 
Can I say again that no one here likes imposing extra charges on customers. We try to be fair in everything we do. In this case we've not been left with a lot of choice, and were it the case that BTw didn't impose the charge on us, we certainly wouldn't be passing that on to our customers.
Regards,
Ian

[#5]

Quote from: Jameseh

The cease is performed by BT OpenReach rather than Wholesale.  You would need to get in touch with them as I don't have that information.

BT Openreach  do not talk to consumers, if fact they do not seem to talk to anyone !!
I would love to talk to them so if no something I don't
I'm all ears

[#6]

Quote from: Ian

That is a more profit than we make from plenty of customers over their entire life with us. I'm very happy to run through all of the wholesale economics we face here at any time - I think you might be very surprised at just how tight the margins are in offering residential broadband in the current market. .... Can I say again that no one here likes imposing extra charges on customers. We try to be fair in everything we do. In this case we've not been left with a lot of choice, and were it the case that BTw didn't impose the charge on us, we certainly wouldn't be passing that on to our customers.

Assuming "plenty" = "most" and that few people actually cancel (only those emigrating or moving to a non-broadband capable area), I would expect that Plusnet are not going to be paying many £20's to BT. It sounds like the net profit (money for shareholders + money to re-invest in the business) is incredibly small - from a commercial point of view, dangerously small!
Never thought I'd see a company which is guilty of undercharging! 

[#7]

I like PN, even though they are BT, so this is not specifically about them.
But there is something strange about having to pay to be disconnected from a service that, for example, you might find unacceptable.  Perhaps when it is like it was in the dark days a year or so ago, before sense prevailed and 'the original PN' philosophy seemed to return. 
Maybe if it costs so much to disconnect someone then BT/PN should have an incentive to make it cheaper (internally) rather simply be able to pass on the cost as another revenue stream.  BT are losing customer as competition is finally, slowly happening (despite the best efforts of the regulator) and this is likely to continue.  Rewarding relatively uncompetitive or bad service seems bizarre.  Perhaps there is reason to talk to Ofcom about BT abusing their dominant market position - but given the history and the apparent special relationship between BT and Ofcom this is unlikely to do any good.

[#8]

It's funny
I remember Plusnet offering a Pay to Stay incentive £30 if memory serves me correctly
I wonder if they will be doing something similar this year
Just a thought

[#9]

The 'You Stay We Pay' was replaced by our current deferred contracts, they just decreased by 20% a year until 5 years had passed.
It was the same cost as the deferred contracts.

[#10]

I've been with Plusnet for umpteen years,received no equipment and pay higher than new customers do.Admittedly I have no intentions of moving or cancelling my phone line but it seems a bit nasty informing me I can have another charge if I do.

[#11]

Quote from: Ian

Quote from: axisofevil I am frankly amazed that an extra £15 is another to cause a substantial profitability hit That is more profit than we make from plenty of customers over their entire life with us. I'm very happy to run through all of the wholesale economics we face here at any time - I think you might be very surprised at just how tight the margins are in offering residential broadband in the current market. Can I say again that no one here likes imposing extra charges on customers. We try to be fair in everything we do. In this case we've not been left with a lot of choice, and were it the case that BTw didn't impose the charge on us, we certainly wouldn't be passing that on to our customers. Regards, Ian

Come off it please! Just how many customers do you expect to incur this charge for us? To be honest I would be very surprised if it was as many as 1% per annum. Even if it were as high as 5% that would only mean passing on a charge of £1 per person per year. That's 9p a month (rounding up as someone said) and I'm willing to bet it's more like 1p in reality. So yes, please dig out the figures for us and let us see just how much it takes to make you want to pass on a charge which you clearly also feel is mean minded, pernicious, and may well prove more costly to collect than impose.  I think you would be better off trying to lever BTw into swallowing this cost as a legitimate part of general maintenance.

[#12]

me1drew
I don't think you're being realistic about this.
If you were running an ISP and the company which provided the 'copper wires' for your service suddenly increased its charges considerably, would you just say "OK we'll absorb this extra cost and not pass it on to the customer, even though our current pricing is as low as it reasonably can be"  ?!
That is not the way to survive in business. Remember, BT Openreach is charging all its customer ISPs this amount and I have no doubt they will also be passing it on....
Also, how can PN "lever" BTw  into "swallowing" the cost? By threatening to move their business onto someone else's copper wires ?  Of course not, BT have the monopoly.
I believe Ofcom are the people who you should complain to, not PN.

[#13]

@ Heloman
Ultimately, we can complain to Wholesale, along with other ISPs, but ultimately, that's unlikely to cause a change.
However, if OFCOM receive a large number of complaints, then there might be some action made.
@ me1drew
I believe that you're actually looking in the region of 10,000-20,000 house moves per year against our userbase.  I might well be wrong there, but that's a bit of a finger in the air number.  Up until this point, we've been absorbing the £5.75 cease charge, but we just can't afford to absorb the additional charge without either passing it on to the customer or increasing prices.

[#14]

(10k - 20k) * £20 per year / per ISP   Nice little income stream for you/your parent.  And reasonably secure since ISP have scant choice of supplier.  The question I suppose is how much more can you increase that £20.........
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[#15]

I have been a customer of Plus Net for a number of years now, when I moved to Plus Net by using a MAC key no equipment was provided for my up to 8MB broadband @ £21.99 per month. Over the years my useage allowance has fallen due to my terms and conditions being changed by yourselves. Last January I moved house and had to agree to stay with Plus Net for 12 month or incur charges, My question is - 
1/ what are these charges ?
2/ If I decide to leave Plus Net before October 29th will these charges still apply as you are changing the contract I agreed to ?
3/ If i don't agree to the cancellation fee is there a link where I can end my contract with Plus Net ?