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Internet constantly cutting out

Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎13-07-2012

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

As requested a log of your connection;
<img src="http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13518551295932.png" />
It looks like it was stable last night, but as you can see there have been a few in the early hours of this morning.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

Well until OpenReach fix the Copper fault, instead of BTw/OR trying to blame other things, then that won't improve much.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

There has been complete and utter incompetence displayed on this ticket by the fault agent dealing with it, more detail to follow. The bloke clearly is incapable of understanding plain english. And for anyone wondering what is about to come, the agent is now trying to claim that the NTE5 is inaccessible  Roll eyes  Angry
Edit: Ticket number is #60836709
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎13-07-2012

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

I'm going to get this chased up, as there appear to be no engineer notes that the NTE5 has been tested by an engineer. Can you confirm that it has definitely been tested?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

As I understand it, the 2nd engineer tested from the NTE5 and told another family member that a fault was 30m away. He did not however put that on his notes, one can only speculate as to why. My guess is he didn't want to be bothered as it would have involved climbing a pole or lifting a manhole cover thinking he could get away with diverting the issue based on the incorrect assumptions (made through lack of info) by the first engineer. Unfortunately that family member didn't pass that information on to BenXFD until recently, perhaps (reasonably) on the assumption the engineer was going to go away and deal with it.
You have already seen my comments about the recent agents handling of this and I'm far from impressed.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎13-07-2012

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

I've chased this up with our faults team, regardless to whether the NTE5 socket has been checked previously or not, our suppliers will not send any engineers without access to the NTE5 socket, if access to this can be arranged then we can get an engineer appointment arranged and resolve the faults ASAP. The exact location of the fault has not been established yet, it is somewhere from the pole outside to the NTE5 socket in the premises so access is required.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

The NTE5 is accessible and I'm in conversation with Phil Richardson about this. I suggest you re-read the ticket history carefully, not just the last comment.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎13-07-2012

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

I have spoke with Phil regarding this one, I should have stated that it's the internal wiring/wiring leading to the rear of the NTE5 socket that we need access to and not just the NTE5 socket, apologies for that.
If this was to be inaccessible, they can disconnect externally, but would have to re-wire the VDSL socket and that will be chargeable and that is something that we want to avoid.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

If the current wiring is not acceptable then Openreach should not have made the install in the manner they did and should have installed a new cable to the vDSL socket  from the start. So if they maintain that this cable is a problem (without  the test evidence) then it is their responsibility to sort it out at no expense to the EU (or Plusnet) as they have effectively done a sub-standard install.
I would remind you that OR are responsible for all wiring up to the NTE5 (and the modem). As BTw/OR have never had all the relevant information (it seems), I am not surprised that this stance is being taken.
If the trims are removed with the subsequent decor damage and 1) OR do not do a proper repair, details have been suggested on the ticket, so that includes connecting the extension correctly AND 2) IF the fault continues which it undoubtedly will, then
I will suggest that the EU sends Plusnet the bill for repair to the decor as well as request compensation for the poor service since this 2nd engineer visit. It will be upto Plusnet what they try and claim from BTw and/or OR.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

For those that have been reading and wondering what this is about, I have had the ticket history forwarded to me by the EU and permission to post it (names removed as per forum rules)
My summary first - fault seen by user very very frequent dropping connection -
First engineer turns up, no background information (connection had worked fine for 6 weeks with the sky box connected). Plusnet testing showed Copper fault. Engineer says it's the sky box, unplug it. Unplugging sky box and filter makes no difference.
Second engineer turned up (having been told it was a speed issue, which it wasn't at the time). Apparently tested from NTE5 and said a fault was 30m away (which puts it outside, somewhere between the top of the pole and and joint at the bottom of the pole or underground). This was not put on the engineer notes. It was said to a family member whilst he was there, and unfortunately the family member forgot to mention this until recently. Second engineers notes blame the sky box etc (how convenient - he didn't have to climb a pole).
PN agent response with "fibre broadband won't work without errors unless extension wiring removed.
That's odd, no-one complained about speeds(until recently) or errors, it was a dropping connection and worked fine for 6 weeks!
EU responded to Plusnet that connection had been working fine and was so when installed. So why was the extension suddenly as issue, Would remove trims etc IF PROVEN necessary.
PN agent responds - 2nd engineer said it was internal wiring. Agent is now referring to "your internal wiring" (despite the fact that even lacking the test information, the engineers have referred to OR's BT80 connector and wiring). This is the same Agent responding towards the end of the ticket and clearly has little technical understanding.
Well it's a bit obvious as eng failed to say it was 30m away. Tone of PN responses suggest that they and OR believed BT80 joint recently covered up - no - been like it for 4 years! Was like it at Fibre install. FULL 10 point explanation and comment sent to Plusnet.
PN response that BTw have closed their fault ticket. New test done, still problems.
Another agent responds with 4 points
1) that the problem caused by external fault and IHO from experience the extension as well
2) there is a copper line problem outside the premises
3) because of persistent drops, line now banded
4) connection logs suggest there may be a router issue, so new one being sent.
Also requests times for engineer visit
EU responds with times and comments that wiring to extension is same standard as wiring to NTE5 (CW130Cool as installed by OR. Sky box is not connected and hasn't been for a while, no change.
Requests correct engineer be sent to test copper as not done previously (what the 2nd eng actually did was not known at this point)
and wrt 4) a test was done with Computer connected direct to modem and problems continued.
EU responds again, new router arrived and tried, no change, not surprised because of previous check.
PN respond with booking engineer. Booking failed, Rebooked, Failed again. Re-book and escalate. EU advised.
BTw phone PN refuse to send engineer because of BT80 connector situation.
2nd engineer test comes to light and PN advised and asked why this wasn't on the engineer's notes..
PN respond mearly saying fault was internal wiring, BT80 connector needs to be uncovered and Master socket needs to be accessible.
Clearly this agent has not read through all the information carefully and doesn't understand that it's BT OR's wiring and there is no test evidence to say it's faulty, or the fact that tests to date showed there was a fault external to the premises. And despite requesting escalation to a more senior engineer with technical knowledge, hasn't done so. Incompetence.
My conclusion I've put at the end.
Here's the ticket -

Your Response
2:44am, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
Broadband Troubleshooter started
Now you've confirmed your contact details and telephone number your broadband is supplied on, we need to ask you some questions about your problem.
We'll save your answers for 48 hours, so you can come back if you don't have time to answer everything now.
Your Response
2:47am, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
Your support request has been escalated to the correct team for review.
Your Response
2:50am, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
Your support request has been escalated to the correct team for review.
Your Response
2:50am, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
Thanks for reporting your broadband problem
Our tests have found a fault with your broadband service.
You've given us all the information we need about your problem, we'll raise this to our supplier for investigation.
A Ticket has been raised to our Faults Team to monitor the problem and we'll be in touch when we have an update for you. In the meantime:
Leave your equipment plugged in and powered up.
Make sure you've given us a contact number we can reach you on (we'll keep you updated about your problem by text message).
If there's any change to the problem you're having please get in touch with us.
Your Response
2:50am, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
Your support request has been escalated to the correct team for review.
Your Response
2:51am, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
The next action on your Contact Us Ticket is due on Saturday 13th October at 2:00am. This ticket will remain open with the BOT - FTTC Logged Faults - Interm until this time.
Script User - Automated Script Pool
1:16pm, Wednesday 10 Oct 2012
The Question 60836709 has been released from hold and sent back to BOT - FTTC Logged Faults - Interm
Your fault Ticket has now been taken off hold.
This has now been forwarded to the relevant support team. We will carry on investigating your problem and your open fault will be updated as soon as more information is available.

[INTERNAL]
Ticket now off hold. Please action.
R - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
2:29pm, Friday 12 Oct 2012
--internal--
BTW invite in now in AA 1-13487965302.

Test Outcome Fail
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1613
Description Potential Copper Joint Fault. Continue submitting trouble report
Main Fault Location LN
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 35.0 Mbps
Upstream Speed 7.2 Mbps
Appointment Required N
Fault Target Fix Time
Fault Report Advised Y
Profile Name 17.5M-35M Downstream, Interleaving Low - 3.6M-7.2M Upstream, Interleaving On
Time Stamp 2012-10-12T04:45:00

NIC pass
RH - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
2:34pm, Friday 12 Oct 2012
SFI has already visited premises and identified source of issue:
After working out what was going on (as the EU wasn't sure), it was found that the premises h as had new doors and windows fitted and the workmen have cov ered up the BT80 wit h PVC linings. At th is BT80, there is a 'Bridged tap' that g oes upstairs, and th ere is a Sky set-top box plugged into th is. It is because of this the line has b een seeing low-speed s. The Sky box has n ow been unplugged an d the EU will cut th e extention wire off if needed, or reque st that the workmen return to expose the BT80. This circuit has been like this e ver since it was ins talled, so Neville i s quite happy to suf fer a little speed l oss, rather than hav ing to cut / rewire anything in the prem ises. EU is getting 65 Meg DS and 12Meg US. Eclipse shows LT OK. EU is very happy with results and wi ll monitor progress
R - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
2:37pm, Friday 12 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
The circuit is still unstable, so as per your discussion with the BT engineer, if you want us to continue with the investigation, please let us know when the BT80 connection point is accessible, and we'll arrange a further visit.
Kind regards,

[Sms Message: The circuit is still unstable, so as per your discussion with the BT engineer, if you want us to continue with the investigation, please let us know when the BT80 connection point is accessible, and we'll arrange a further visit.]
Your Response
7:46am, Sunday 14 Oct 2012
11/10/12 - When trying to connect through Technicolor Gateway the error that was coming up was "Concentrator not reachable".
12/10/12 - Tried connecting straight to the modem, bypassing the router but the connection was still unstable.
14/10/12 - Despite what the engineer that came to the house was seemingly informed of, the speed of the connection was never an issue. We had received very good speed all along, the only issue was the constant cutting out of the connection which is still carrying on despite him being '110% sure' that disconnecting the Sky box would resolve the issue.
However, speed HAS become an issue starting this morning. Here is the result from Speedtest.net
http://speedtest.net/result/2240710904.png
Your Response
6:48am, Monday 15 Oct 2012
Speed issue resolved.
Still got the constant disconnecting issue though.
N - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
10:01am, Monday 15 Oct 2012
[INTERNAL]
GEA:
st Outcome Fail
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1613
Description Potential Copper Joint Fault. Continue submitting trouble report
Main Fault Location LN
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 25.0 Mbps
Upstream Speed 4.3 Mbps
Appointment Required N
Fault Target Fix Time
Fault Report Advised Y
Profile Name 12.5M-25M Downstream, Interleaving Low - 2.1M-4.3M Upstream, Interleaving On
Time Stamp 2012-10-15T03:30:00

WP Product: WBC FTTC Annex A 20Mbit/s Up, 80Mbit/s Down, Standard Stability
WP Profile: Generic Speed 26400 No Time Out
Ellacoya: Service_Offer_43
RADIUS:

Summary - GEA is failing. Contacting echat.
Kind regards,
N
N - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
10:19am, Monday 15 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
Thanks for getting back to us, I have rested your line and found a Potential Copper Joint Fault externally to your premises, we have raised this to our suppliers to investigate the root cause of the fault and resolve it. We will let you know as soon as an update is available which is usually within 48 - 72 hours.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://contactus.plus.net/ or by phone on 0345 140 0200 if we can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
N
[Sms Message: Plusnet: Thanks for getting back to us, I have rested your line and found a Potential Copper Joint Fault externally to your premises, we have raised this to our suppliers to investigate the root cause of the fault and resolve it.]
B - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
11:57am, Tuesday 16 Oct 2012
~internal~

192 of 249 (77%) User Req Drops in last 7 days
Fault reference in progress atm
- 16/10/2012 06:54:57 Update Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message
- 16/10/2012 06:54:54 Supplier Notes Follow on task progressed by DJ
- 16/10/2012 06:54:50 Update Fault is now beyond PONR. Any further amendments or cancellation may incur charges
- 16/10/2012 06:54:18 Update Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message
- 16/10/2012 06:54:12 Supplier Notes Follow on task progressed by DJ
eChatting for an update
Engineer should be completing work today
Kind regards,
B
B - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
12:01pm, Tuesday 16 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
Thanks for your patience. We have received confirmation that a network engineer is working on the fault today and should have the necessary work completed by the end of today. We will continue to monitor the fault and update you when we receive the updates ourselves.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch by responding to this ticket or calling 08004320200.
Kind regards,
B
[Sms Message: Plusnet: Thanks for your patience. We have received confirmation that a network engineer is working on the fault today and should have the necessary work completed by the end of today. We will continue to monitor the fault and update you when we receive the updates ourselves.]
J - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
1:38pm, Wednesday 17 Oct 2012
[internal]
Notes - As stated by previous engineer there is a tap from BT80 or equivalent before NTE5/VDSL2 FRONTPLATE that has been covered up. I explained to Mr  that this extension would have to be removed completely from the joint for fibre broadband to work without any errors. He said he had to leave to collect his car and he needed to discuss this with his family/Greenfield properties as to how to proceed if joint box can be exposed etc, he may disconnect extension himself etc. LTOK but showing end user equip detected due to tap.
looks like there is an extension connected before the master socket. That is causing the issue and needs to be removed. passing back to EU to adv on how he wants to progress.
Kind regards,
J
J - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
1:44pm, Wednesday 17 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
I have checked for updates following the recent engineers visit and can see that the engineer has advised that there is a junction box needs to be replaced to be able to provide an error free service. I can see that you need to discus this with your family and Greenfield properties. This is advised to us by the engineer that attended. Please let us know what the out come of this is we can progress the fault further.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://contactus.plus.net or by phone on 0800 432 0200 or 0345 140 0200 if we can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
J
[Sms Message: Your fault ticket has been updated. You can view your fault and reply at http://contactus.plus.net, or you can call us on 03451400200.]
Your Response
5:56am, Friday 19 Oct 2012
What I don't understand is you sent a message before the engineer came saying it's a potential copper joint fault external to our premises but the engineer has again pointed to this extension that is just going into a sky multiroom box as contractually we have to have.
The fibre optic connection worked brilliant without a single fail from the date of activation up until about 2 weeks ago, so I don't understand why this extension is suddenly an issue.
I don't want to be doing work to remove a line unless absolutely necessary.
M - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
12:19pm, Saturday 20 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
Thank you for getting back to us. I am sorry to hear of your ongoing issues with your connection. When we run a test it shows that there is an issue on the line. The test run remotely is unable to identify where this issue is and as two engineers pointed out this is caused by your internal wiring. You don't need to remove the cabling to see if the issue is caused by this. All you need to do is to disconnect the cabling from your master socket and monitor the connection for any drop outs.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://contactus.plus.net or by phone on 0800 432 0200 if we can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
M
[Sms Message: When we run a test it shows that there is an issue on the line. The test run remotely is unable to identify where this issue is and as two engineers pointed out this is caused by your internal wiring. You don't need to remove the cabling to see if the issue is caused by this.]
Your Response
6:11am, Sunday 21 Oct 2012
1) This wiring was there at the install and was left connected by the engineer that installed the Fibre and it caused no problem, and the setup has worked satisfactorily for 5/6 weeks. Unplugging or plugging in the Sky Box makes no difference to these drops.
2) Just to be clear, the door has been installed for 4 years.
3) This wiring is prior to the NTE5a, according to OR records connected by a BT80 and is therefore OpenReach's responsibility.
4) OpenReach are quite capable of doing Copper line tests to locate the cause of the problem, which I have no doubt is external, but they have failed to carry out these tests and I have seen no evidence of such tests being carried out with, for example, a Hawk Tester.
5) The problem is clearly an external Copper line problem as seen by your own testing at least TWICE. There is know way of knowing without OpenReach carrying out the correct tests to prove that the fault is not external but internal, and if the latter whether it is on the leg of the wiring to the NTE5a or to the Extension.
6) The engineer comments on the 14/10/12 were clearly wrong see 1) above and he was misinformed that the problem was a speed issue.
7) As previously advised, there will be no major disruption to the internal decor to access the BT80 without PROOF that the fault is on the interior OpenReach responsibility wiring.
8 ) I'm given to understand that the speed issues I'm now seeing are because of the ongoing multiple repeated drops due to the Copper Line problem.
9) If the fault history had been read correctly, and the proper and full information about the Copper Line Tests had been provided to OpenReach, this fault may have been fixed by now. Perhaps read this forum post http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,108310.msg927211.html#msg927211
10) A request has been made for this matter to be escalated internally, and I suggest a more senior faults agent read the full history before responding to this ticket, as "scripted responses" are not acceptable.
Thank you.
Script User - Automated Script Pool
5:10pm, Sunday 21 Oct 2012
The broadband fault has been closed by the supplier. Should problems re-occur, please restart the Broadband Fault Checker.
D - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
1:47pm, Tuesday 23 Oct 2012
[INTERNAL]
Further Investigation.
Kind regards,
D
D - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
3:35pm, Tuesday 23 Oct 2012
[INTERNAL]
Copper - PASS
Test Outcome Fail
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1613
Description Potential Copper Joint Fault. Continue submitting trouble report
Main Fault Location LN
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 13.1 Mbps
Upstream Speed 0.8 Mbps
Appointment Required N
Fault Target Fix Time
Fault Report Advised Y
Profile Name 6.5M-13.1M Downstream, Interleaving High - 0.128M-0.8M Upstream, Interleaving On
Time Stamp 2012-10-23T08:00:00


Summary - Line remains very problematic, extension would appear to still be in place, still highlighted copper issue which would match up with the recent findings that the socket was covered by internal decoration, banding is in place due to instability meaning speeds will not return until this is cleared.
Next Action - Advise EU.
Kind regards,
D
D - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
5:10pm, Tuesday 23 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
I have retested the line as well as reviewing the engineer notes and can still see the line is problematic so ultimately we would require another engineer visit. The available timeslots as before are weekdays either between 8am & 1pm or between 1pm & 6pm.
I shall review the situation up in four stages:
Firstly you have a very intermittent line which can be affected by a number of things as well as also affecting other parameters. The intermittency itself will be caused by partially the copper line problem but from experience mainly the extension cable that was not removed previously. By reviewing the notes I appreciate you do not want this removing because of the effects it could have on the decor. I must advise that it is likely that this will need to be done at some point to fully resolve the issue, I shall leave the decision up to you as to how this is done whether it is via the home improvements company, BT Openreach or by yourself.
Secondly I do agree with you that the copper line problem is located within the network as opposed to only in your premises. Whilst this may be the case another engineer would be required to trace this back to the exchange. The problem with this is that the copper line engineers are classed as different engineers to broadband trained so we are unable to source an engineer that will carry out both jobs. They may be trained in both but generally need job references to carry out relevant repairs however the issue still stands that another engineer is needed.
Thirdly the speed issues are caused by the intermittency, at present you have a banded profile which has been set by DLM (Dynamic Line Management). This has been applied automatically in order to try and stabilise the line. I can see this is currently at 13.1MB with the sync speed also running at this so it is evident the line can achieve more, this is backed up by the speeds you received prior to the changeover to 80/20. Our suppliers are able to reset the profile should an engineer call control whilst he is on the job however if the intermittent fault is not cured then the restriction could easily be reapplied.
Finally I have checked our connection logs and there are a lot of 'user requests' which indicate either the end user is turning the router on and off or the router is dropping the connection itself. I cannot see any history on the account to suggest a different router has been tried so to fully rule this out being a router issue I have ordered you a new one. This will be free as part of the warranty period from the one you currently have.
I would like you to review the information above and supply further availability for an engineer if this is the route you would like to take.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://contactus.plus.net/ or by phone on 0345 140 0200 if we can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
D
[INTERNAL]
Fault reraised - 1-13647042228
[Sms Message: Plusnet: Your fault ticket has been updated. You can view your fault and reply at http://contactus.plus.net/, or you can call us on 0345 140 0200.]
Your Response
12:54am, Wednesday 24 Oct 2012
Hi D, thank you for your reply.
Firstly, as far as availability goes. Any weekday between 8am and 1pm should be fine. Is there a possibility of being informed when an engineer is able to come in advance (even if it is just a few hours before) as the first two engineers arrived completely unannounced and as I was not available at the time, were left explaining the situation to my elderly father, who is quite frankly completely clueless when it comes anything like this. I believe the fact my father most likely just nodded and 'yes'd to whatever was said probably didn't help in fixing this problem.
With regards to the points you have mentioned -
Firstly) Your experience is interpreting the situation incorrectly. This is not some sub-standard user installed extension (with bell wires or flat cable), it is Openreach installed CW1308 standard cable, exactly the same as that currently used and feeding the NTE5. The cables have been in place undisturbed for over 4 years, and were in place when the fibre install was done and there has been no problem for 6 weeks until this external fault, as I pointed out in my previous response to this ticket in paras.1) 2) 3) 4) & I emphasise point 5) in particular.
I am sure that once the external fault is fixed, there will be no problem.
(However should there continue to be one, then Openreach would have to completely rewire the installation - their responsibility on a Fibre install BUT they would need to demonstrate that there was a fault on this wiring by tests from the external joint box with the dropwire as mentioned + photo in the forum thread linked in 9) of my earlier response.before any disruption to decor would be entertained.).
Secondly) I am given to understand that Fibre trained Openreach engineers are the ones responsible for providing the support for everything including copper between the cab and the premises. Therefore please ensure by liaising with your superiors that an appropriate engineer is dispatched that can check as much of the copper as is needed (ie all of it) as that hasn't been done to date.
Thirdly) Noted, understand.
Finally) A separate check was made by connecting the computer directly to the modem as advised by Mr. Phil Richardson to eliminate the Router. The problem continued as noted in the forum thread linked in point 9) reply #15 which I also put earlier in this ticket in my reply dated: 7:46am, Sunday 14 Oct 2012
Is it possible that the modem is faulty, I understand that there have been a number of faults due to them overheating?
I look forward to your response, and this time to a correctly & fully briefed engineer attending.
Thank you.
Your Response
8:46pm, Friday 26 Oct 2012
I received the router yesterday. Still having the same problems. Not surprised as when I bypassed the router I still had these problems. Perhaps the modem is faulty?
Is an engineer booked yet?
M - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
8:52am, Sunday 28 Oct 2012
[internal]

GEA not running. Fault in AA, booking an engineer.
Kind regards,
M
M - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
8:54am, Sunday 28 Oct 2012
[internal]
Confirmed date 30/10/2012 02:00:00
Confirmed time AM
Provisional appointment ref 0F82729FR

Monitoring as LN fault identified previously so very likely LN engineer will be dispatched.
Kind regards,
M
M - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
2:20pm, Sunday 28 Oct 2012
[internal]
Rebooked again
Confirmed date 30/10/2012 02:00:00
Confirmed time AM
Provisional appointment ref 0F82CABFR
Kind regards,
M
M - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
5:27pm, Sunday 28 Oct 2012
[internal]
Rebooked again as failed. Adding to handover to recheck again.
Kind regards,
M
B - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
2:34pm, Tuesday 30 Oct 2012
~internal~

Appointment didn't go through again. EU available AM slots. Will re-book and raise escalation
Booked in for 01/11/12
Esc Ref: 276143
Kind regards,
B
B - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
2:38pm, Tuesday 30 Oct 2012
Dear Mr ,
Thanks for your patience. For some unknown reason, our suppliers have cancelled the appointment. I have raised an escalation with them due to this. I have now re-booked the appointment for 01/11/12 between 8am and 1pm. Please accept my apologies for the problems faced so far.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch by responding to this ticket or calling 08004320200.
Kind regards,
B
[Sms Message: Plusnet: For some unknown reason, our suppliers have cancelled the appointment. I have raised an escalation with them due to this. I have now re-booked the appointment for 01/11/12 between 8am and 1pm. Please accept my apologies for the problems faced so far.]
Jonathan Foster - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
11:56am, Wednesday 31 Oct 2012
--Internal--
BTW called to advise that OR are refusing to go out due to customer covering part of BTW equipment.
J - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
12:12pm, Wednesday 31 Oct 2012
*internal*
received call from BTW regarding escalation, they are refusing to send an engineer as line entry point is "boxed in", before I could ascertain their meaning, the call dropped.

Kind regards,
J
Your Response
9:02pm, Thursday 1 Nov 2012
It has come to light as a result of a family conversation that one of the engineers that had attended previously did carry out a test from the NTE5 and said a fault was 30m away - this would make it the top of the pole or underground? Why was this not on the engineer's notes and more importantly why hasn't it been fixed?
This is very clearly no kind of fault on the premises, and shows total incompetence.. somewhere down the line.
M - BOT - DSL Logged Faults
11:10am, Saturday 3 Nov 2012
Dear Mr ,
Thank you for getting back to us. I have gone through all of the engineers visit and I was not able to find any mention of fault being 30m away from your premises. All the engineers that visited your premises advised that the issue is caused by your internal wiring.
Unfortunately we would not be able to investigate your fault further until the BT80 socket is uncovered and internal wiring disconnected to help progress the fault finding process.
As per our terms and conditions we would need access to your master socket to provide you broadband service.
I am now passing this fault back to you. Please let us know once the socket is uncovered and internal wiring is disconnected. We will then investigate your issue further if the problem still exists.
I apologise for any inconvenience this matter caused you.
Kind regards,
M
[Sms Message: I have gone through all of the engineers visit and I was not able to find any mention of fault being 30m away from your premises. All the engineers that visited your premises advised that the issue is caused by your internal wiring.]
CONCLUSION
Because of the (various) agents lack of technical understanding they have failed to attribute the fact that this boils down to a sub-standard Fibre install in the first instance if they are now saying the cable is unsatisfactory. This lack of understanding is no doubt the reason why they have been unable to escalate the matter to BTw/OR to get the external fault fixed. If what the 2nd engineer is claiming was true why doesn't it say on his notes, tested from NTE5a and fault 'x' metres away (where x is some distance internal to the property).? I can only surmise as I did a few posts back (reply #49). Plusnet seem to be taking a stubborn stance because they can't or won't escalate the matter and tell BTw/OR this is because of their lack of test evidence (unless they are covering it up because they don't want to get an external team out as the fault may be underground).
Pettitto
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 32
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎26-11-2011

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

Hi guys,
Just a quick post to let you know that I'll be taking a look into this issue now with a view to getting this issue satisfactorily resolved.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,106
Thanks: 446
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

Thanks Chris, let's hope some common sense can be applied.
My conclusions above say most of it.
But before anyone else from Plusnet comes back again muttering Ts&Cs, and the right of OR to have access to their network, no-one is disputing that, and the EU has said at least twice in the ticket, that the trims would be removed if it was proven that there was a fault on the internal wiring.
This incessant muttering about "the extension" just shows the lack of technical understanding and I quote from point 5) on one response to the ticket above "There is know way of knowing without OpenReach carrying out the correct tests to prove that the fault is not external but internal, and if the latter whether it is on the leg of the wiring to the NTE5a or to the Extension."
You cannot blame the leg of the previously OR installed wiring to the extension, which is to exactly the same standard as the other leg to the NTE5a without proper tests results, which neither of the OR engineers have provided. Internal wiring doesn't normally suddenly develop faults unless it has been disturbed or is physically damaged which the EU says hasn't occurred.
As has been stated several times, this was a sub-standard Fibre install by OR in the first place, the existing CW1308 should technically not have been used to feed the NTE5a and in any rate, had it been deemed satisfactory, another vDSL filter should also have been supplied at the extension.
If this was my installation - what would I do -
I would remove the trims  ON CONDITION that OR made no threat of billing, AND that they rewired the installation using the correct Data Extension cable from the end of the drop wire to the NTE5a (removing the CW1308 to the NTE5a to try and keep the installation tidy) and then used the spare pair in the Data Extension Cable back from the NTE5a front plate to the BT80 to feed the extension. That way, in the future, the extension can be isolated for testing by removing the front plate, and the appropriate standard of cable is feeding the modem.
However, in this case the EU needs to decide and OR/BTw need to accept that they did not do the job correctly and will do so now at no expense to the EU or Plusnet. (And fix the external fault!!).
Pettitto
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 32
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎26-11-2011

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

Thanks for your reply.
Moving this issue forward to get resolved, an engineer will be assigned to resolve the Local Network issue in around 24 hours. Further specific information has been placed on the Fault Ticket: 60836709.
If you've any questions in the meantime, feel free to pop a message either on here or on the ticket mentioned above Smiley
BenXFD
Grafter
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎08-08-2012

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

Hi Chris, sorry I missed your call yesterday. I get a ridiculous amount of PPI-type annoyance calls and unfortunately your call came up as a 'Blocked' number so I didn't answer.
An engineer arrived at about 11am. He wasn't briefed at all as he basically turned up and went "so.. what's the problem here?". Anyway all was explained to him and he did tests from the phone socket and couldn't find any errors on the line. He did a 3 minute test and nothing showed up so what he's done is put a new Openreach modem in and changed the front plate on the socket as he said he'd never seen one like it before.
The one we had is yellow on the inside and apparently heavier than the white ones he's always installed, so he changed it over. Did more tests and no issue, he said it tested at 75 down and 20 up.
I did a quick speedtest on speedtest.net which got me 17 down and 18 up haha, but yeah, the main thing is so far it's not dropped out once.
So i checked on this page https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate
Estimated line speed:
60Mb (Accurate to within +/- 1Mbit) - Checked on 2012-09-24 00:28:23
Current line speed:
17.4 Mb
So i'm not sure if my profile needs resetting or whether to just wait a few hours?
Pettitto
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 32
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎26-11-2011

Re: Internet constantly cutting out

Hi,
Not a problem. Thanks for letting me know what went on this morning with the engineer. I've just updated the Speed Profile on our systems. If you log into your router, disconnect and reconnect, the changes made should update. Fingers crossed this has resolved the issue.
With regards to the engineer being unsure as to what the problem was, I'm sorry about that, the engineer should have been briefed with notes. Let me know how you get on with regards to the speeds and we can take it from there Smiley