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Help diagnose dropped connections

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Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Help diagnose dropped connections

Nightmare!  I seem to get fairly frequent disconnects and can't find a reason.  Some advice on steps to take would be appreciated.
Equipment: DG834GT, Windows 7, BBYW Pro, using XTE2005 faceplate (wire 3 also disconnected), using Router Stats
Exxhange: Milton Keynes.  21CN enabled.  Not sure if I'm on +2 or not though.
Current router stats:
ADSL Link                Downstream  Upstream
Connection Speed    1184 kbps      448 kbps
Line Attenuation        60.0 db        31.5 db
Noise Margin            14.9 db        16.0 db
Prior to recent spates of disconnects I was getting the following (note that this was also forcing a 50% target snr on the router which I've now switched off). These are also approximate as reading from router stats graph:
Connection Speed      2274
Line Attenuation        60.0
Noise Margin              9.5
Only been in this house since mid November so don't have a long history of what I "should" be able to get.
Real pain though, I'm actually closer to this exchange than my last one.  This current exchange is "better" in terms of the services (LLU companies, 21CN etc..) but I get worse speeds and connections.
Some things I've noticed over the last week or so:
No frequent pattern for the disconnects
When using the phone the noise margin drops a tiny bit (0.25) while the phone is in use
Silent line test is normally pretty quiet but i've just tried again and can hear noise.  But then - how quiet is a silent line test supposed to be?
I noticed today that my connection was lost 3 times around 14.50, again at 15.11 and again at 15.17.  Also about 6 times between 08:15 and 08:30.  I can't think of any reason.
Question though - I connect wirelessly to my router, is this loss of connection my PC to router or Router to ISP?  How can I tell?  I ask as I spent ages and ages last year sorting out a problem with my Logitech Squeeze box losing it's connection to my wireless network.  Turned out that deleting Windows Zero Configuration from the registry fixed the problem.  So these loss of connections I'm experiencing may just be a network issue and not an isp issue.  *shrugs*
What else?...  can't think of anything else atm.
18 REPLIES 18
jelv
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 26,785
Thanks: 971
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

A drop in noise margin when using the phone isn't a good sign!
Do you have just the one telephone socket or are there others? If you have others are they dead when you take the XTE2005 off to expose the test socket?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

There are multiple phone sockets in the house.  At least 3 downstairs and I think 2 upstairs.  I don't use them though.  Phone is connected to the XTE master and I use two "remote" handsets. 
Can you expand on what you mean by removing the faceplate?  Do you mean take it off and disconnect all wires?  Does this still apply knowing that wire 3 is disconnected?
jelv
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 26,785
Thanks: 971
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

No just unscrew the faceplate and leave it hanging with any wires attached to the back of it.
If the wiring is not correct a lot of extensions mean a lot of wires that can act as aerials and cause problems even if the wire 3 is disconnected.
As you've said remote handsets I'm assuming you have a DECT phone. How close is the base unit to the router?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

Phone is about 2 feet from router  Undecided
Reason: I didn't think the phone extensions sockets would work with wire three removed.  If it's "safe" to reconnect wire three (and this re-activates my extension sockets) I could move the phone to the office. Which would be best anyway.
I'll try to remove the faceplate and post results a bit later on.
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

What baffles me though, the disconnects today were during the day what teh house is pretty inactive.  Since the kids and wife have come in from school/work and just about every bit of electrical equipment in the house has been used - no drops.
jelv
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 26,785
Thanks: 971
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

If it dropped during the afternoon and resynced with a higher noise margin (and hence lower speed) it would be more tolerant of noise.
Can you post the RouterStats noise margin graph please.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

Tough to post as I've had the graphs updating every 5 seconds today.  But here are several screens of some drops (two from this evening and one of the multiple spates from the am).  I hope this works as I've not posted images or attachments before.
There isn't really a noticable increase or decrease in noise before/after the loss.  Sync speed stays exactly the same as well - which is why I question if this is a wireless network loss rather than BB loss.
I haven't fiddled with the master socket yet - been off work with a migraine and don't want to spark it off with any strenuous activity !
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

This is interesting .. I think.  Been playing MW2 for a hour or so.  Didn't have any connection issues but look at router stats!!
Sorry for the big image but router stats has stopped responding so couldn't minimize
How come router stats shows multiple disconnects while I've been online?  Plot thickens
VileReynard
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Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

Quote
Tough to post as I've had the graphs updating every 5 seconds today.

Those "drops" can just mean that router didn't respond quickly enough with the stats for your program.
You don't say whether you are using wireless...
I had this problem of telephone calls reducing the noise margin by 2-3dB - and not wanting to mess with the bell wire,
I installed a face plate filter at the master socket.
[I think BT sell these under the name "Speed maximiser"(?)] - but there are better ones available (AFAIK).
Cured the noise margin problem entirely.
I have a DECT base unit + phone about 12" from the router + an old pulse-dial in parallel (to increase the sound volume) Grin Grin
All 3 wired into face plate filter. Grin Grin Grin
Sync speed - around 6.5Mbps

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

Yep on wireless.  So you may be right.  Already using a faceplate but will be experimenting as per Jelvs comments earlier.
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

@ Jelv.  Tried the following:
XTE faceplate still in place:
Extension in hallway works (extremely noisy)
Extension upstairs works (slightly noisy)
XTE removed (left hanging)
Same results as above
I can't chek all the phone sockets - especially the one in the office as it involves unscrewing some built in furniture.  Hopefully the above tells us what we need to know?Huh
I've left wire 3 off for now.
jelv
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 26,785
Thanks: 971
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

XTE removed the other extensions would be dead if the XTE was in the master socket. That means you MUST have filters in all the other sockets if they are in use. It explains why the sockets are noisy and will be killing your ADSL speeds.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£14.40/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
shutter
Community Veteran
Posts: 22,206
Thanks: 3,769
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Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

What kind of wiring is used to make the extension sockets?    Is it the "readily available" DIY flat extension wire, like this....
http://www.mrmdvd.com/catalog/images/Telephone%20Ext.jpg ; (not necessarily with that kind of socket on it.....

or is it the round stuff  like this....
http://www.hyperline.com/img/sharedimg/cable/cable1-2.jpg
known as CW1308 or twisted pair....
Discord
Grafter
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎28-03-2008

Re: Help diagnose dropped connections

ok, but..
@ Shutter: The extensions are internal extensions with nothing plugged into them. 
@Jelv: The XTE, is at the master socket and has the router and phone plugged into it.  With the XTE removed I obviously lose my DSL but keep voice - you seem to be implying that I should lose voice as well?  Perhaps I've wired the XTE incorrectly - but should be straight forward and followed what I did at my previous house.  Wires into the old master were: 2, 3, 5.  I kept 2 and 5 leaving 3 unconnected.
You're right though.  When I removed the XTE to test the extensions I should have plugged filters into the sockets I then tested (doh).  I'm sure if I'd done that the sockets would not have been noisy. 
Sooo.. assuming my XTE is wired correctly and my extension sockets don't need filters (as they are not in use), where to go from here?
I guess I should try and go for a wired network to see if this eliminates the problem.  This would be ideal anyway as I'm a gamer.  But - the XTE and router are on the master socket in the lounge and my PC is in the office.  The office is next to the lounge so I guess I could run a cable from the XTE into the office (not as easy as it sounds due to configuration of walls and fireplaces!!).