Had problems since before Xmas with Broadband connected but random no internet. Anyone help plea

[#1]

OK Robin, lets hope things settle down now. Sounds like you got a good engineer this time - certainly better than your previous guys line-manager anyway

Good you can contact him direct - at least if he has to come back he will not have to start from scratch.

Don't know why you couldn't get RSL to run on the TG - I have had it running on mine for years, although I have now replaced it with the RouterStats v7.0 (i.e. the full version).

[#2]

This is same one as the first time. Not his team leader. Won't give up on the fault! 

He seemed to think that all the work today was same as the TPM from his understanding.

I used router stats first off about 9 or 10 years ago. My router login works ok today and I can access the menus. In Win10 I enabled the telnet in windows settings or whatever google said. I can find the router model listed in router stats and select it. , but pressing > start, after a couple of error message boxes you click ok, it just straight lines, not picking up the data.

There was a google result on this problem, it referred back to a link given in a thread on this forum. But it came up as unsecure, do not proceed on my AV, no httpS either. So didnt go further.

Will just have to see what happens. I do have faith in this engineer doing his utmost to help though.

Just now, 2007,

6 - Uptime:	0 days 03:10:30
7 - Data rate:	756/8193
8 - Maximum data rate:	1176/8484
9 - Noise margin:	8.9/8.0
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/39.5
12 - Data sent/received:	45.6M/1.3G

Thanks, Robin

[#3]

Understand what you are saying there, Robin. Thiis guy seems like one of the 'old school' type - sadly a dwindling breed, but still around.

If the setup instruction you were linked to, but chose not to follow by your (over-zealous, IMO) AV were on this forum they are safe - probably the ones created by @Townman  - if you want a direct link, just find one of his posts, they are referenced at the bottom of all of them.

Can't help with W10 I'm afraid - I won't touch it with a barge-pole, and the odd times I've had to use it elsewhere, found it the most useless iteration of the whole Windows family.

[#4]

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@joseph1 wrote:

There was a google result on this problem, it referred back to a link given in a thread on this forum. But it came up as unsecure, do not proceed on my AV, no httpS either. So didnt go further.

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Oh how we get sucked in to being scared where there is nothing to be scared about.  Manufacturing security alerts where they have no relevance is really unhelpful.  A desirability for HTTPS encryption only comes about where a user is exchanging data with a webservice, for example as in filling a form containing personal information.

For plain web page browsing no such concern exists ... beyond attempts to get website providers to shell out brass for a security certificate ... even where only static web content is served.  As the provider of a Charity website which collects no information, the implied necessity to shell out hard to come by donations every month to placate scaremongering AV and browser alerts is most irksome.

[#5]

@Townman @jab1 

Thanks for reassurance. I tried the link you gave on this page:

https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/TG582N-Telnet/td-p/1513055

Unfortunately, I haven't a clue what is required to get my routerstats lite working.

On Router-Stats Lite (v115) screen, graph straight lines and I keep getting "not responding".

Robin,

[#6]

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@jab1 wrote:

Sorry for the late reply Robin - just had a late lunch and phone call. I'm sure I saw where one of the 'Super Users' 'Townman' had given  detailed instructions on how  to get RSL working with the 2704N - but I may be wrong.

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Hi John,

No, it was the TG587n - a cracking router in its day and IMHO still a far better ADSL router than the 2704n, which cannot (TTBOMK) be monitored by router stats of any variant.  The cynic in me believes that BT made monitoring of the 2704n impossible so that users cannot inspect performance.

[#7]

@Townman TG587N?

The cynic in you is very likely correct - BT (any variety) do not want users to be able to independently monitor anything, so they can claim their network is performing at 100% all the time, although we all know that is a total fallacy. It's almost as though they have resuscitated the individuals who ran the GPO Telephones network, who for some reason made customers their lowest priority, almost as if  they regarded them as a nuisance.

[#8]

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@jab1 wrote:

Don't know why you couldn't get RSL to run on the TG - I have had it running on mine for years, although I have now replaced it with the RouterStats v7.0 (i.e. the full version).

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Hi John,

IIRC you have the TG587n which works well with RL and RSL.  @joseph1 has the Sagem 2704n which will not play with RS or any other monitoring tool.

@joseph1 

At the risk to teaching you to suck eggs, I think it is worth clarifying how this space works...

1. Lines have target SNRMs set at 3dB intervals - the norm is 6dB - good lines might work fine at 3dB - poor lines get banded at 9dB / 12dB / 15dB etc in an attempt to maintain stability depending on how bad the line is
2. When the modem starts up, it will seek to sync at the best possible speed to deliver the target SNRM over the then present background noise
3. Thereafter the achieved sync speed remains constant throughout the xDSL session until the link drops and is re-established as per (2) above
4. As the background noise varies the observed SNRM will vary (I expect that will be familiar to you as a radio HAM?) both up and down as noise increased or dissipates
5. Background noise in the ADSL frequency range is greater during the hours of darkness due to AM radio interference from EU countries, therefore the observed SNRM can fall by up to 2dB

Consequently point inspection of SNRM as you have reported is not overly helpful, unless one know when the router last re-sync'd the line.  On a problematic line, a re-sync during daylight hours might well result in a fall of SNRM during the night to a level which is not sustainable.  Similarly a re-sync during darkness in the presence of EU country AM radio interference will result in a slower speed ... and an elevated observed SNRM during the day.

Therefore an observed SNRM of 6dB +/- 2dB might not be anything to be overly concerned about.

I note that one badly corroded joint was re-made if there was one bad joint, I would expect there to be others on the circuit as well.  Iffy lines can be more susceptible to picking up radio interference at night ... and indeed REIN.  You mentioned a history of this. One wonders if the replaced PSU has now gone pear-shaped again?

Identifying, locating and eliminating REIN and SHINE is not an easy task.  I would recommend obtaining a router (either borrowed or bought from eBay) which lends itself to being monitored by RS / RSL / xDSL if you really want to bottom this out.  I think you need to be able to "see the shape" of this so as to inform the resolution of the issue.

I have seen some odd issues of this ilk, from a PSU in a CCTV system which went pear-shaped at dusk as the IR emitters powered up, to WCML super pendolenios pushing out a 30 second 6-8dB noise spike as the hurtled by.  5 second interval monitoring created enough detail in the curve to discern the direction of travel.

I would not be surprised to find that you have REIN / SHINE and that your line has more bad joints to be located and rectified.  It would be worth you giving your phone line a close inspection, see where it goes within / around your property, look for junction boxes ... especially in out of the way places such as under the eves.  Not so long ago there was a case of repeated BTOR visits to a forum user replacing multiple segments of their line ... until one lady engineer sought to do a proper inspection and found an old dirty damp junction box lurking under the eves.  Re-crimping that blighter eliminated many months of issues for that user.

[#9]

@Townman Mine is a 582N

[#10]

@Townman 

Thanks for the explanation. Points 1 - 5 understood previously, point 1 I only learned from the first OR guy.

The same guy as first callout visited yesterday and spent around 6 hours. Changes from original  landline are :

Pole about 15M from house, he remade the previous  screw terminal connection but using crimps. From here, wire goes down pole, to a manhole in pavement about 7M away. This is where he changed my pair onto a spare pair all the way back to the exchange. There, it was connected into a different adsl card or whatever it is called. Whether on same rack, unknown, as it was done by an exchange guy.

The previous corrosion was on my original line. Agreed, corroded terminals can give rise to "diode effect" and generate far more noise.

The previous psu owner has moved away. No doubt, with the huge amount of smps around these days, each one is a noise generator waiting to happen!  A lot are bad from new, thanks to cheap non emc conforming products from far East!

My pre-OR tests of over a week ago I isolated all such items in my house and tested with the router only, connecting to a laptop on battery via wifi. Noise margin was the same.  This was to prove my end was clear.

BTW, my router psu is an old fashioned heavy transformer type wall wart. Has been for years.

Several years ago, we had the sfi team round one evening who then traced the noise to the pc down the road as generating it.   A week or so before, OR did thorough checks and replaced my dropwire from pole junction box to a new master socket they fitted.

When the OR guy yesterday told me about the increased noise recorded on my line daily from around 1000 - 2359, I checked with my MW radio around my mains incoming fusebox and nothing too great. However, near the cable running down the pole and along under the path, a lot more noise was picked up. The OR guy could offer no explanation, saying it didn't sound like the 612KHz adsl signal.

Hopefully, new REIN measurements will now be recorded by BT?

Unfortunately, due to the wide area the noise covers (but not really into my house), I am unable to define what it is or where it is from by df-ing it with a MW radio.

The old pc a few years ago I could triangulate the house from opposite side of the road, it was that bad!

I will try my old technicolor tg582n router once more, probably at the weekend and see if I can get routerstats to work.

I don't want to disconnect just yet as adsl seems to be settled and working nicely, give it more time.

The past 12 months I don't think I ever had 6dB up or down. Last May, OR replaced the entire multi pair cable between the manhole outside my house and a cabinet where the fttp originates, about 1km away on the route towards the exchange.

Here are latest stats, 0.1dB change over several checks in nearly 24 hours, can't be bad.

@1625

- Uptime:	0 days 23:27:45
7 - Data rate:	756/8193
8 - Maximum data rate:	1176/8948
9 - Noise margin:	8.9/9.1
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/39.5
12 - Data sent/received:	223.6M/2.5G

Thanks, all help is appreciated.

Robin

[#11]

That DS SNRM looks high - one wonders if the line is still banded?

Try looking for the sync-up message in the in the router log - it should state that target SNRM at sync start.

[#12]

@Townman @Gandalf @jab1 

Townman, Sorry, I don't know how to find "sync-up mssage" in my sagem 2704N

I think the OR guy last week said it was probably still pinned at 9dB

Here are stats a few minutes ago, if any help?. It has worked fine since last week, just one disconnect by PN to run a test.

6 - Uptime:	1 days 20:00:10
7 - Data rate:	756/8050
8 - Maximum data rate:	1156/8400
9 - Noise margin:	8.5/8.4
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/39.5
12 - Data sent/received:	437.0M/1.8G

John and gandalf, thought I would let you know how it is now.

Thanks, Robin

[#13]

Thanks for the overview Robin,

I can reset the noise margin down to 6dB which should boost your speed up a bit more. I'm conscious that it may cause further instability though. If your speed's OK as it is and things remain stable, I'd personally leave the noise margin at 9dB as the expectations (speed estimates) of your line are between 5.5mbps and 12mbps.

Let me know though if you'd want me to make the change or there are further issues.

[#14]

@Gandalf  Thanks for the reply.

OK if I give it a week to make sure fully stable and then decide if to try it lower at 6dB?

Thanks, Robin

[#15]

No problem Robin, sounds good.