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Fitting Filters

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Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Fitting Filters

Maranello,
If you have a fault open, give the faults guys a ring and have a quick chat.  They'll be able to sort that out for you after running a couple of checks.
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Pro
Posts: 1,211
Thanks: 190
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Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fitting Filters

Hi Jameseh,
I haven't opened a fault, do I raise one through the broadband faults checker, or the ticket system?
Update @11:25
Fault Ticket raised through the faults checker, #25747976, and have phoned CSC helpline.
Cannot progress further as router is currently powered down.
CSC will do further tests this pm when I get home from work and power up the router, before sending out a router on loan.
My other car isn't a Ferrari
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Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Fitting Filters

Faults checker please Smiley
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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Fitting Filters

Hi Maranello,
Well done for posting those stats, I'm sorry I've only just had chance to give them a good look. Also noted your firmware upgrade. As an aside I'm a bit baffled as to why I can find no reference to mine & some others at 3.03c for the 210 (maybe it's a different configuration)
I don't know if you've got another router to try yet but seeing the stats from that will be interesting as I've only just noticed  that your downstream power seems to be all over the place, something I should have noticed from the original stats you posted on page 1 for which I apologise. So either your 210 is cooked (possible as it could be one of the ones that had duff capacitors) or a possible exchange fault.
You ought to try and rule out a POTS line fault though. I don't see any report that you've done that. As you're a PO line rental customer, you'll need to phone their CS to get them to carry out a line test (do not mention BB). Just say you've noticed some noise on the line on occasions which seems intermittent (only a slight variation from the fact - you've just not said what kind of noise!). The line test is NOT the same as a quiet line test and may still show up a dodgy connection or fault to earth etc.
Regards,
Chris.
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Pro
Posts: 1,211
Thanks: 190
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Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fitting Filters

Hi ChrisE (Anotherone)
I wasn't going to update this post until I had some positive news to report, but you have raised some interesting points (and since you were up very early this morning I thought you might want something mundane to help you sleep!!!)
I've done as Jameseh suggested, raised a fault via the faults checker, and left the router powered up for various periods both with and without any phones or devices other than the router plugged in. Initially, due to the intermittent nature of my 'fault' the CSC staff concluded that the fault was either with my phones, filters or extension wiring since the first overnight period of operation with only the router plugged in did not result in any disconnections (even though there was a thunderstorm nearby), whereas there were disconnections during the daytime with a phone plugged in. However, the next night my router stats were indicating that the line count increased from 11 to 15. CSC logs only showed 2 resyncs, but this was enough to convince them to send me a router on loan. I'm expecting it to arrive in the next day or two. Last night I again unplugged the phone, and this morning discovered that the DSL light was flashing. I tried a trick that has worked in the past to get the connection back, plugged in a filtered phone and lifted the handset for about 30 seconds, then replaced it. The connection resync'ed long enough to get some router stats before falling over again, the line count was reported as 180! Now powered down to give the Voyager a rest after almost 60 hours continual operation. Plusnet are sending a D-Link as an alternative to the Voyager.
Your mention of the Voyager firmware version 3.03c has got me thinking. This was the original firmware that the router was running, and with hindsight I should probably not have 'upgraded' to what appears to be an earlier release. I'm guessing that I might be able to restore the firmware to 3.03c by resetting, but I'll wait until the D-link arrives and is working before I risk losing the settings and having to re-enter manually.
Your review of my stats is accurate in that both the output power and noise margins are varying, but until recently I didn't know if this was normal. I have also had some stats reporting a 15.5dB d/s attenuation, which I have read somewhere is a common reporting error along with the 'trellis off' line coding indication. Do you know if these are also symptoms of a 'cooked' router?
I have contacted the PO homephone technical support line to have the line test done, but they are reporting no problem with line. They did ask if I had broadband and when I said yes (I'm not a convincing liar, and in any event I thought they could probably tell) they suggested disconnecting the BB equipment including filters and see if I get any noise when using a corded phone. To do this I'll have to reinstate the original master socket faceplate, but this would be a last resort before getting a BT engineer out as I have to admit I haven't noticed any problems with noisy phone calls. Plusnet CSC tests on my line have also indicated no problems, but the Law of Sod alway seems to apply to intermittent faults.
Watch this space for a new set of stats when I get the replacement router up and running.
Regards and thanks to all who have contributed help and advice in this thread.
My other car isn't a Ferrari
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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 452
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Fitting Filters

Hi Maranello,
Easy bits first - the 15.5dB attenuation report is a common bug which comes and goes for no obvious reason that I know, I haven't seen it on mine for ages, but I avoid rebooting like the plague, only when needed!! Having been more observant with Trellis reporting, I've seen quite a few stats (different routers) misreporting and no other problems. I've seen it suggested somewhere that such anomalies may be down to some obscure incompatibility between DSLAM and modem/router chipsets but we are going to need a design engineer of such kit to answer that one! So the conclusion would seem to be that neither of these two are specifically related to cooked routers, but a cooked router could misreport a lot of things anyway!
Your problem seems at least related to an intermittent noisey/faulty joint/cable. The fact that picking up the phone got your sync back (POTS current on the line temporarily cleaning the dodgy connection) is highly indicative. These intermittent problems are a real <censored> to get sorted sometimes, the only solution very often is for the engineer to remake every joint. Over a couple of years back I had a several separate instances of the dial-up connection dropping, immediateky pick up the phone you could hear the noise which would eventually go away. An incoming call would also temporarily cure it (nice hefty current cleans the connection for a short while).
You're going to need to be persistent I'm afraid.
A least if all the symptoms remain unchanged or similar with another router you may get some action.
Keep us updated,
Regards,
Chris.
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Pro
Posts: 1,211
Thanks: 190
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Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fitting Filters

Latest update.
After a slight delay, I finally managed to setup and connect using the loan router sent by plusnet. Its a D-Link DSL-320B, as I specifically requested a different make/model to my Voyager 210.
Router was first up and running at round 5:45pm on Saturday (9th Aug). I managed to work out how to access the router stats, which showed a d/s sync rate of 1632kbps, and line attenuation of 63.5dB (Voyager reported 63db), which I have read somewhere is the maximum that some routers will report. Router has been running continuously since then (36 hours as of this morning when I last checked), with only a single resync which was manually initiated. Noise margin has been reasonably steady at around 10-13dB, although at one point I noticed it had dropped to 3dB. It seems I still have quite variable noise on my line (still gathering more stats), but the D-Link appears to be better than the Voyager at holding on to the connection at low noise margin.
So, whilst I was expecting conclusive proof that I had an intermittent fault on my line, the change of router seems to have 'cured' the problem (by the way, it's not easy trying to type with fingers crossed on both hands). However, it's still early days, might just be a purple patch on my connection despite the rain and wind yesterday.
I took a step back and reviewed what has changed. Despite the obvious router change, I also changed the power adapter and RJ11 cable (I think I'ved used the correct terminology, its the one which connects the router to the line socket on the filtered faceplate). In doing so, I noticed that originally I had bundled up the excess length of cable using a cable tie, and this bundle was sitting on top of the power adaptor which was plugged into my surge protector. Could this be a source of interference/noise? In the current setup the RJ11 is just left trailing behind the desk. Will try later to swap back the original RJ11, unbundled, to see if it makes a difference.
I'm planning to run the D-Link for the rest of the week, gathering stats periodically, and will post here.
The only other difference of note is that the D-Link does not run as hot as the Voyager, so I expect it to be more durable in the long term.
My other car isn't a Ferrari
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Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,033
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Fitting Filters

I can't really comment on your specific case but I was recently getting major problems with my USB mouse which would intermittently freeze a sometimes needed to be unplugged and replugged into the port to work..
The problem turned out to be the USB cable lay on top of the power supply for my speakers.
So the answer is that it could very well be a part of the problem.
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Pro
Posts: 1,211
Thanks: 190
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Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fitting Filters

A bit of lateral thinking combined with a forum full of knowledgable and willing contributors can result in noteworthy contributions. Thanks Jim.
It was whilst thinking about moving my hi-fi system that I remembered from a year or two back trying to eliminate hum on the signal from the turntable, that was eventually cured when I stopped using flexible conduit to 'tidy up' the spaghetti of cables behind the unit.
If I can replicate the broadband line stability problems I had previously it would certainly be worth adding to this thread - just in case anyone else is as obsessive as me about such things!
My other car isn't a Ferrari
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Pro
Posts: 1,211
Thanks: 190
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Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fitting Filters

I thought I would post an update.Having reviewed the thread, it seems to have meandered away from the issue of filters, and a lot has happened since I last posted to this thread.
The loan router from Plusnet seemed to perform much better than my Voyager, in that it held on to the connection at lower noise margins down to 3dB. However, there was still sufficient interference on my line to cause frequent loss of sync events, and consequently Plusnet arranged a BT Engineer visit.
The BT Engineer duly arrived on a day when my connection was behaving itself. Nevertheless, he swapped out my line from the cabinet to the exchange, and also changed my ADSLnation filtered faceplate to an Openreach branded version. My connection has been much more stable since, but unfortunately I can't determine if this is due to either the changed faceplate or the line changes. The loan router was run for a week with only two disconnections that were not deliberate. Continuous sync rates of over 1600kbps have been achieved. I think this could be improved if my target noise margin is reduced, as the router reports ~12dB when first synchronised.
Now I have reinstalled my original Voyager prior to sending back the loan router. 36 hours with only one resync (so far) is an improvement over previous performance, but I'm still not certain that the Voyager may not have been a partial contributor to the poor performance,  and I continue to monitor my router stats. Apart from changing the router I have left everything else in the same configuration as the BT Engineer left it (i.e. no additional filters on either the DECT cordless phone which is plugged into the new filtered facplate, or the corded pulse dial handset in the upstairs extension).
For future readers I have tried to summarise this thread.
1. Some DECT phones need to be double filtered to revove interference on broadband connections.
2. Older, pulse dial corded phones can also introduce noise to a line and affect a broadband connection, and using a filter may not improve things. Better to replace with a more modern tone dial handset.
3. Removing the bell wire was found to be effective in increasing the achievable sync rate.
4. Fitting a filtered master socket faceplate did not in my case appear to improve the sync speed or make the connection any more stable or reliable.
Finally, I would like to say thanks to all the contributors to this thread. I have learned a lot more than I knew before I started it.
My other car isn't a Ferrari