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Enable fast path

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

Thanks for the reply, and moving the fault along.

 

Should I call in and book an engineer then so they can do this, or just wait to see what happens for now? Either way I'm happy for you to just work down the 'quality gate' list to see if that would possibly fix something.

 

Also, doesn't a copper pair from the cabinet follow the same path as any other pair? I would guess so, then it wouldn't convince me completely that they eliminated every problem by changing the pair today. But I'm happy to cross off practically everything that can be before they look at interference or start checking manholes for joint problems (which they seem reluctant to do).

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Re: Enable fast path

Also, doesn't a copper pair from the cabinet follow the same path as any other pair? I would guess so, then it wouldn't convince me completely that they eliminated every problem by changing the pair today

Yes it does and yes this is where the issue could be. If your cable is serving xxx homes and one pair has a certain type of issue, there's every chance that moving to another pair is fruitless. It's just moving the issue around the same multi core cable.

But I too am suffering from this. Right back from 2008. My cable is aluminium and 57 years old. I have random drops, random calls dropping, random hissing and whooshing noises on the phone etc etc etc.

The last 4 OR engineers have all said the cable from the pole (ironically just at my property boundary) to the cabinet needs digging or where it's in ducting pulled out and replaced.

Openreach termed mine as 'cable fill'.

 

Having said that, yours could for entirely different reasons, but kinda sounds like you're suffering from the same issue.

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Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Enable fast path

No worries, I'd hold off on arranging an engineer visit until our suppliers escalation team have got back to us. I'll be honest and say it's generally not easy to request a lift and shift. As far as I'm aware engineers will only do it under very certain circumstances, so it may not get actioned. BT can arrange for the work to be carried out on the back of a TPM instead.

I don't think all copper pairs follow the same route from a cabinet to a property, though it's difficult to advise definitively as it depends on how they're routed which we can't really see or have any visibility of.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@Gandalf thanks for the explanation. I think it must be similar in my case between the pairs as the stats seem to be identical or close enough.

 

I just had a very odd issue where my router just stopped responding and had no choice but to put a different one in. Maybe it was due to resync again but I put my other router in just in case it wasn't caused by loss of sync.

 

I suspect I would get more signal out of the new cabling, so maybe I inherit some of the errors too. I will hold off for now and if it drops again I'll give support a call. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll do a lift a shift just out of unwillingness to investigate a REIN fault or check under any manhole covers.

 

@DS a kelly engineer told me BT publicly claim (and to ofcom) that there's no aluminium left at all whilst really they do have it. It's just word of mouth but if that's true it's surprising they'd admit to having aluminium to you if they publicly claim the whole thing is copper.

 

For my part I suspect water got in somewhere but now it's dried up things are just corroded. I can't be sure but the answer to the question "what changed recently?" would be "it rained heavy last month and my line would drop when this happened". You'd think they'd check the obvious sources but it looks like they try the cheapest options first.

 

From my experience so far anyway and I suspect it's the reason for changing the copper pair, much quicker and cheaper I'm sure.

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Re: Enable fast path

If that's what they say, then I 'blown away'. Mine is still showing on the OR laptop!! I've had it confirmed from 4 recent engineers I have roughly 780 metres of aluminium. This is from the top of the telegraph pole to my cabinet. From the cabinet to the exchange is 800 metres, but this bit is copper, though that bit doesn't matter on VDSL (so they said).

I didn't know until recently that the estimates on our GEA tests are from the pole to the exchange. I thought they were from the pole to the cabinet. Or have I got that the wrong way around?

Recently been told about a certain contractor working on behalf of Openreach. One OR guy went to a customers house as there connection was slow - oddly the house and cabinet were only 200 metres apart, but the tester was showing almost 1000 metres. They ended up digging to find the reason - a full drum of cable (yes still on the roll) was crudely joined in the middle, adding almost 800 metres to the overall length. OR think their contractor dropped it in the hole, couldn't get it out, so simply joined it into the circuit.

Openreach also said third [arty damage has been a thorn in their side too - when cable (now Virgin) was buried, they reckon BT infrastructure was banged and squished in the process. What makes it harder for OR is when they go and try to do a dig, the 'cable co' ducting is directly above, so they have to dig around this too.

One guy told me the cables in the manholes are above the water table, so shouldn't get too wet. Though flooding would certainly fill the holes up!!

 

If you get bored and want to educate yourself, google 'harmonics' and 'induced voltages', as it's a similar principle Wink

 

To clarify my earlier post, the cable from your house to the pole (assuming your overland) should be a twisted pair. Other neighbours then meet yours at the pole. From there you're all in one large multicore cable to your cabinet. This is where external influences play a part, hence crosstalk, REIN etc etc. The same applies to mains voltage (why I mentioned harmonics and induced voltages) - they are all susceptible to 'invisible forces'.

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

Ah. In my case everything goes underground but I'm sure it may be similar in principle. Biggest problem in my view is they won't provide shielded cables or ensure any kind of shielding in junction boxes and so on. The new external cabling I was given today is still not shielded, despite apparently being the best they have.

 

Also bits and pieces always hang out, there doesn't seem to be any such thing as waterproof junction boxes, manholes are allowed to have puddles on or wobble when walked on.. and who knows what it looks like down there or inside the cabinets, telephone pole boxes etc.

 

I had an overhead line fall down once, pushed down by a tree. They of course refused to do anything about the tree and had their excuses ready, and instead shared a neighbours phoneline. That line had a fault both before and after it fell down.

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@Gandalf 

 

So I got a drop again and I will let support know at the first oppurtunity. I'm not sure if BT will try to come out and cross off a lift and shift or REIN issue but will see in a few days I reckon.

 

@DS

 

I am not that into eletricals but I do think about potential problems with power, including interference, brownouts or surges so maybe some time I'll take a look. I always use surge protectors, swapped them around recently, lightbulbs were swapped, some things are turned off, the usual basic REIN checks.

 

Just now made a couple of potential improvements, as unlikely is it would be that a problem still exists after I did my best to eliminate any sources of interference before.

 

Losing a roll of cable down a hole is pretty funny. I'll have to remember that - more is better, so just use the whole thing!

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Re: Enable fast path

Even underground, it's the same. The only bit visible here is the drop wire to the pole, then down into the ground to the cab.

The problem can be made worse during the construction of properties - during my travels around the UK, seen it all - dig one trench and chuck all services in. Fresh water, poop, gas, electricity, fresh water drains, foul drains, phone, cable, street lighting. Some developers (not all) don't think about the effect mains and phone lines have on each other.

BT supplied lines/wires/phone extensions are usually of very good quality, well it used to be anyway.

Have to agree, shielded is the way to go. It's like VM with their fibre offerings - it isn't all fibre optic, it's coax cable too (though shielded). Same for BT Infinity, it isn't all fibre either. FTTC does confuse many, they are lead to believe it's fibre all the way. FTTP or indeed 5G is the future.

Sharing a phone line could be asking for trouble, though if it's twisted pairs then it's better than 4 straight wires.

 

Regarding surge protectors - have you got one near your router? You could try, if it's feasible, to make sure it's as far away from the router as possible - ever noticed why some routers come with very long power leads...? But you twist the spare length up together;), the surge protector (with a light on it) and the routers large black 'power plug' can and sometimes do emit 'noise' which can 'bleed' in to the router/phone signal.

I have most of my devices plugged in to a multi gang extension lead, but always put the routers plug all by itself, with the router as far away as I can from any external sources, but it's not always practical. I actually used to run a router off a leisure battery, with that battery on a smart charger. It wouldn't lose the power (in the event of a power cut) and could be on for 12 months plus. Kinda tempted to experiment with this again Wink

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@Gandalf

 

I just recently put in a cat5e adsl cable I had lying around and there seemed to be an immediate improvement, managed to get to 14 hours uptime now but errors are still high.

 

I was just using a flat cable before (brand new, tried other flat cables too) and didn't get very far before it dropped. If it stays up now I think it just confirms there is a noise issue somewhere, and I just have a better signal due to better cabling.

 

I'll call support about the drops later, but maybe it's worth testing now with the improved cable for a bit so I won't call right away.

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Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Enable fast path

Thanks for the update.

I've checked in with our suppliers and I can see they've agreed to place a TPM order, however they've noted that it will drop your connection for 3 days while the work is being carried out. Are you happy to go ahead?

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 Anoush Mortazavi
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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@DS 

 

In my view BT could just stick in cat5e sstp for most installs and reasonably expect some faults and speeds to improve.

 

I get the feeling they don't care much about copper pair broadband now, and that their answer to the problems is vdsl. But for vdsl specifically it is still part copper so I think upgrading external wiring is a reasonable way for them to go.

 

I mostly say this because I know that putting in cables with better noise rejection on my side has always been an improvement, particularly when they are twisted pairs and shielded I have often noticed improvements to the line attenuation, and rate and ofc a lot of people noticed improvements from using an RF3 or the now obselete i-plate.

 

Despite the network changing hands a bit and some merging of other companies, I have not ever noticed a problem with cable except one time when lightning fried something underground.

 

I do try to keep the router away from all sources of interference, and to avoid any crossing of electrical and data cables. Sadly I can't eliminate interference sources with the nte where it is at the moment, and asking for it to be moved somewhere away from that would increase the length of external cabling by another 10 feet (and possibly introduce interference from outside lighting on it's way).

 

There is a storage heater on a mains timer about 1.5 feet away from the NTE. I keep it switched off but mains power will always be heading to the switch when the timer kicks in.

 

I see everything electrical as a potential source of interference, and I am under the impression it all makes noise at times, it's just a case of how much or whether it hurts broadband. Maybe I'm wrong on that, anyway doing my best to keep any cables and sources of power away from the modem.

 

I'm lucky that at least I've only noticed one power trip here, but have wondered about UPS and interference over mains. I was experimenting with power to see if I could make a difference last night, put in one of my better surge protectors and moved the modem power supply plug away from other plugs as well (this strip has more plug points).

 

I notice just from pictures people have on the internet, and sometimes cleaning up old modems that many do not have any in-built shielding. Personally I think it would help if manufacturers used shielding or maybe small heatsinks at least for adsl chips.

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@Gandalf 

 

This is a bit of a tough call for me.

 

Are they sure it's 3 days at the most? When they say 3 days do they mean three working days or are saturdays or sundays included?

 

Also, would they do a shift and lift at the same time?

 

I would be happy for this to happen, but would need to know the time I'd be offline and roughly when work would start and end (without any grey areas like 'working days') as there are some things I really need internet for.

 

I'll definitely agree to it if it's 3 days and the work wouldn't be halted because of the weekend. If they started it Monday for example I will just agree with the work being done.

 

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Re: Enable fast path

Have to agree with you totally on all that!!

Regarding neighbours - anyone got solar panels near you?

They, if not set correctly, can 'shove' too much back into the mains network, creating issues for them and for those around them...!

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@DS 

 

The answer to that is I'm not completely sure. The neighbor directly opposite me looks to have panels on their roof but they are dark panels and no reflection coming from them, otherwise I'd guess they are solar panels, just look like black grills.

 

There are a couple of minor things I noticed around here last night that I'd want my landlord to look at as far as electricals go, not that I think it's hurting my internet or causing interference. But I think they'll agree with me it just needs looking at and taking care of in any case.

 

 

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Anonymous
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Re: Enable fast path

@Gandalf 

 

About the TPM, I'll almost definitely have to agree but it would just help me to know any specifics about timing.

 

Cheers Smiley