Disconnections and slow speed
Hi Barry,
Good to see that Anotherone (who taught me a lot of what I know in respect of ADSL) is looking after you whilst I'm away. On ferry crossing at the moment so good Internet access and I've had to deal with an issue with one of my referrals who is travelling with me. No rest for the wicked.
Some pointers from me...
1. The omg event - as Anotherone suggested, the resynch occurred whilst the interference was still present - you can see the 6dB plots on the up edge of the depressed synch speed plot. Pretty dammed quick thereafter the noise went away with the consequence of a 17dB SNRM. I would have resynch'd at that point rather than change the RouterStats pilot axis values.
2. Tone plots - I see you are getting into the depths on RS
- can you select the up to tone 512 (IIRC) option - this will allow visibility of the high end tone utilisation(if any).
3. At its best, this line is performing 2Mbps below expectations - I think you have done as much as you can to close the gap. There is a 1.6% variance between the AE and BE capacitance measurements. For a well balanced line this should be below 1%...
I believe it is time to call in BTOR to check out the external line - the decay in SNRM rectified by an incoming call is clearly indicative of an external line fault. Look up Uncle_Meat's long similar saga on picking up the receiver delivering marked improvement of SNRM. http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,125789.0.html
Cheers,
Kevin
Good to see that Anotherone (who taught me a lot of what I know in respect of ADSL) is looking after you whilst I'm away. On ferry crossing at the moment so good Internet access and I've had to deal with an issue with one of my referrals who is travelling with me. No rest for the wicked.
Some pointers from me...
1. The omg event - as Anotherone suggested, the resynch occurred whilst the interference was still present - you can see the 6dB plots on the up edge of the depressed synch speed plot. Pretty dammed quick thereafter the noise went away with the consequence of a 17dB SNRM. I would have resynch'd at that point rather than change the RouterStats pilot axis values.
2. Tone plots - I see you are getting into the depths on RS
- can you select the up to tone 512 (IIRC) option - this will allow visibility of the high end tone utilisation(if any).3. At its best, this line is performing 2Mbps below expectations - I think you have done as much as you can to close the gap. There is a 1.6% variance between the AE and BE capacitance measurements. For a well balanced line this should be below 1%...
I believe it is time to call in BTOR to check out the external line - the decay in SNRM rectified by an incoming call is clearly indicative of an external line fault. Look up Uncle_Meat's long similar saga on picking up the receiver delivering marked improvement of SNRM. http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,125789.0.html
Cheers,
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
just a couple of comment on your suggestions
1) The reason for changing the scale was to see what the SNRM graph was looking like, and silly me has forgotten to ask Barry to post it
Barry if you could post that last Rx Noise that would have been saved when you shut down for the restart.
2) I don't think we are going to see any tones above 255, the fall-off is too great at that top end, but it may look different with a daytime one, we'll have to see.
3) If you recall, ChrisP did a Cu test and it wasn't showing anything untoward, except you queried the capacitance values, as would have I, but I don't think they are outside BTOR limits
ChrisP may come back and comment on that. So pursuing something with BTOR would probably be fruitless at this moment. As you well know, intermittent faults are an absolute pain and unless something shows up on a formal test at a given instant, it will just get rejected as NFF. Even if the line is still erroring quite highly, although that may be enough to get a Fault moving with BTw, I'd suspect the most likely outcome would be "raise the Target SNRM" to see if it stabilises - you know what that means. But again we'd need ChrisP to comment.
Also we have to eliminate the filter, which has been swapped, so if the same occurs again, we'll know it's not that.
We'll also then have to do a modem/router swap and leave the other running for a period, to be certain it's not the modem/router causing the problem. I wouldn't really want to see that swapped just yet, as we haven't accumulated enough data either with this one, or since the filter change.
So my recommendation would be steady as she goes for a bit longer.
OK Barry, that Bits/Tone is pretty much along the lines of what I might have expected to see, I've only glanced quickly, I'll study it in more detail later. It's a trifle disappointing at the top end.
Now this Tx Noise not plotting correctly still, also the scale being up the creek, as you've checked the settings, I can only assume that the Routerstats.ini file has got corrupted, which was my earlier thought, and the only cure will probably be to start a fresh one
That means going to the folder where you have Routerstats installed and, with Routerstats stopped, well you could rename the Routerstats.ini file rather than delete it - actually attach a copy of it to a post, I'll have a quick look to see if there's an obvious thing I can spot. So then rename it, so when you start Routerstats again it will generate a new file, but you'll have to go through all the settings and enter them all again.
Now as to the cause of this "event", I'm beginning to wonder if it was a power glitch. Atm that's the only thing I can think off that could have caused a corruption to Routerstats.ini and caused the connection to drop and resysnc. Are you prone to power glitches or brown-outs or even cuts on occasions?
The other thing you could do tonight, particularly if you don't want to bother generating a new .ini file tonight (or possibly editing the current one if I spot something) is to go back to the Telnet Router >Bits/Tone >Bitswaps/Tone graph and put a tick in the bottom LH box to get it plotting, and also right click on the graph and select it for scheduled capture.
Hope you see this tonight, that may be useful.
just a couple of comment on your suggestions
1) The reason for changing the scale was to see what the SNRM graph was looking like, and silly me has forgotten to ask Barry to post it
Barry if you could post that last Rx Noise that would have been saved when you shut down for the restart.
2) I don't think we are going to see any tones above 255, the fall-off is too great at that top end, but it may look different with a daytime one, we'll have to see.
3) If you recall, ChrisP did a Cu test and it wasn't showing anything untoward, except you queried the capacitance values, as would have I, but I don't think they are outside BTOR limits
ChrisP may come back and comment on that. So pursuing something with BTOR would probably be fruitless at this moment. As you well know, intermittent faults are an absolute pain and unless something shows up on a formal test at a given instant, it will just get rejected as NFF. Even if the line is still erroring quite highly, although that may be enough to get a Fault moving with BTw, I'd suspect the most likely outcome would be "raise the Target SNRM" to see if it stabilises - you know what that means. But again we'd need ChrisP to comment.Also we have to eliminate the filter, which has been swapped, so if the same occurs again, we'll know it's not that.
We'll also then have to do a modem/router swap and leave the other running for a period, to be certain it's not the modem/router causing the problem. I wouldn't really want to see that swapped just yet, as we haven't accumulated enough data either with this one, or since the filter change.
So my recommendation would be steady as she goes for a bit longer.
OK Barry, that Bits/Tone is pretty much along the lines of what I might have expected to see, I've only glanced quickly, I'll study it in more detail later. It's a trifle disappointing at the top end.
Now this Tx Noise not plotting correctly still, also the scale being up the creek, as you've checked the settings, I can only assume that the Routerstats.ini file has got corrupted, which was my earlier thought, and the only cure will probably be to start a fresh one
That means going to the folder where you have Routerstats installed and, with Routerstats stopped, well you could rename the Routerstats.ini file rather than delete it - actually attach a copy of it to a post, I'll have a quick look to see if there's an obvious thing I can spot. So then rename it, so when you start Routerstats again it will generate a new file, but you'll have to go through all the settings and enter them all again.
Now as to the cause of this "event", I'm beginning to wonder if it was a power glitch. Atm that's the only thing I can think off that could have caused a corruption to Routerstats.ini and caused the connection to drop and resysnc. Are you prone to power glitches or brown-outs or even cuts on occasions?
The other thing you could do tonight, particularly if you don't want to bother generating a new .ini file tonight (or possibly editing the current one if I spot something) is to go back to the Telnet Router >Bits/Tone >Bitswaps/Tone graph and put a tick in the bottom LH box to get it plotting, and also right click on the graph and select it for scheduled capture.
Hope you see this tonight, that may be useful.
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Hi Barry,
Hope your migraine has gone.
I didn't finish looking at everything last night, we had a lightning storm and lots of errors on my line so I gave up in the end.
I've got to rush at the mo but will look more at things this afternoon.
If you can, post up any stats/graph from this morning as well as those previously mentioned.
I'm hoping that you may have a captured Bits/Tone from last night and if you could do another about "mid-day" ISH
It looks as though your line is picking up a bit of MW/AM interference especially after dark, so it's likely to be down to what the cause of that may be, other than long line, and what we might be able to suggest to improve things.
Hope your migraine has gone.
I didn't finish looking at everything last night, we had a lightning storm and lots of errors on my line so I gave up in the end.
I've got to rush at the mo but will look more at things this afternoon.
If you can, post up any stats/graph from this morning as well as those previously mentioned.
I'm hoping that you may have a captured Bits/Tone from last night and if you could do another about "mid-day" ISH
It looks as though your line is picking up a bit of MW/AM interference especially after dark, so it's likely to be down to what the cause of that may be, other than long line, and what we might be able to suggest to improve things.
Hi Barry,
I guess unfortunately your migraine is still troubling you. Post when you can, no rush.
I have had a good look through everything and there isn't inherently anything obviously wrong with your line. There is in all probability an intermittent issue probably with a joint somewhere, but the difficulty with these things is until it chooses to show itself in a more sustained way, they can be a pain in the bum to find. The best way to proceed is to be as certain as one reasonably can there there isn't an issue with filters, your modem/router, internal wiring etc. We've already tackled the potential issues with the internal wiring and when I see some graphs since you changed the filter, that may give us a better idea about where we stand.
A few things worth noting from Chris's test results.
The mean time between errors both down and upstream has been quite variable, at the moment upstream has dropped compared to previously, in part this will be related to the uncapped upstream change that took place around then, but one would still hope for better figures and better stability on both. The increase in Uptime duration and drop in number of retrains will no doubt be in part due to the ILQ having gone Green.
Whilst Kevin mentioned the capacitance, that difference between each line is not especially helpful, it's way short of a 15% figure that might get Openretch to do something about it, and of course note that the test result at this time was a Pass and atm the line is considered stable!
Two things I note from the DP analysis in the last attachment "Line performing equal to or better than other lines on DP" also "Predicted speed 4500".
Hmm, my comment, that doesn't say an awful lot about the quality of the cable!
The graphs so far have shown that there's random intermittent joint and that the line does pick up some MW/AM interference. There's always the possibility of a small amount of REIN as well, but no real evidence of that.
That's a medium to longer length line so performance is never going to be super good, and I'd guess that there's a fair bit of it that's overhead. Any idea, how much may be?
The only other thing I've noted for now, (from the first attachment) is that the MSR/FTR are stupidly low, in fact unreasonably so. You'll never get a line speed fault looked at with those figures
So when this is all rapped up, that's something we can ask Chris to try and deal with for you.
From some of the MW/AM radio interference that you are getting, you are obviously in the S. of the country, bordering on the SE. Anyway when you get the chance to post up some more graphs, we should be able to make some more suggestions that might enable some more convenient monitoring & usage, and getting the best from things as they are.
I guess unfortunately your migraine is still troubling you. Post when you can, no rush.
I have had a good look through everything and there isn't inherently anything obviously wrong with your line. There is in all probability an intermittent issue probably with a joint somewhere, but the difficulty with these things is until it chooses to show itself in a more sustained way, they can be a pain in the bum to find. The best way to proceed is to be as certain as one reasonably can there there isn't an issue with filters, your modem/router, internal wiring etc. We've already tackled the potential issues with the internal wiring and when I see some graphs since you changed the filter, that may give us a better idea about where we stand.
A few things worth noting from Chris's test results.
The mean time between errors both down and upstream has been quite variable, at the moment upstream has dropped compared to previously, in part this will be related to the uncapped upstream change that took place around then, but one would still hope for better figures and better stability on both. The increase in Uptime duration and drop in number of retrains will no doubt be in part due to the ILQ having gone Green.
Whilst Kevin mentioned the capacitance, that difference between each line is not especially helpful, it's way short of a 15% figure that might get Openretch to do something about it, and of course note that the test result at this time was a Pass and atm the line is considered stable!
Two things I note from the DP analysis in the last attachment "Line performing equal to or better than other lines on DP" also "Predicted speed 4500".
Hmm, my comment, that doesn't say an awful lot about the quality of the cable!
The graphs so far have shown that there's random intermittent joint and that the line does pick up some MW/AM interference. There's always the possibility of a small amount of REIN as well, but no real evidence of that.
That's a medium to longer length line so performance is never going to be super good, and I'd guess that there's a fair bit of it that's overhead. Any idea, how much may be?
The only other thing I've noted for now, (from the first attachment) is that the MSR/FTR are stupidly low, in fact unreasonably so. You'll never get a line speed fault looked at with those figures
So when this is all rapped up, that's something we can ask Chris to try and deal with for you.From some of the MW/AM radio interference that you are getting, you are obviously in the S. of the country, bordering on the SE. Anyway when you get the chance to post up some more graphs, we should be able to make some more suggestions that might enable some more convenient monitoring & usage, and getting the best from things as they are.
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