cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

teddyindevon
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎16-03-2019

Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Hi, I am a newbie to the forums but I have been with Plusnet for ages (standard unlimited Broadband)  and normally have had no problems whatsoever.  Initially using a Technicolor TG582n  I upgraded” to a BTHome Hub 3 a while ago as I installed a WiFi camera in the loft (watching for signs of any mice) and felt the WiFi on the Hub3 would be better.  Subsequently with two more WiFi cameras in the garden and bearing in mind a couple of “smart” TV’s (with catch up) and my iPad and phone, I decided to upgrade to a two band WiFi router.  A Netgear D7000 came – and went back, it seemed to keep “dropping” the broadband (the lights on it indicated it was still connected) so I got hold of a BTHub6 which, strangely, also kept dropping the connection but at least told me so with the lights on it.

Fine – Plusnet eventually “twiddled” with the line settings – told me to plug into the (old) Master Socket (rather than an internal house extension) and eventually an Openreach engineer called and installed a new Master socket.  I latterly found out that this new master socket is wired so as the remaining internal sockets now no longer receive Broadband – phone yes.  So I am restricted to using the main socket just by the front door.  Hence now a strong WiFi is essential.

However, and whilst this is OK up to a point, the latest twist to the tale is that I have discovered that when I upload a reasonable size file to my Google Drive (it is my additional backup system) then my download speed on the HomeHub6 collapses – and I mean collapses.  I have kept copious notes and the average download speed normally is about 13Mbps with an upload of just about 1Mbps.  When uploading as previously stated (say 25 photographs) the download speed collapses to between 0.08 and 0.16Mbps.  It recovers again when the upload has been completed.

Now I am aware that the download needs upload confirmation of the encryption so a small degradation would be acceptable, but an utter collapse ??  I have tried with a different HomeHub6 and it is the same.  However, with the Home Hub 3 OR the Plusnet TG582n the download speed is only degraded to between 8 and 11Mbps - well at least on the test I have been doing today.

I had thought the problem was with the line (and have an open question on it with Plusnet) but the tests I have done would seem to indicate that it is the (any ??) HomeHub6 as both the ones I have tried, exhibit an identical problem with the upload/download.  In all other respects (split WiFi) etc they are fine – much better WiFi signal for all the various connections.  

Can any genius/genii think of a reason – and more importantly, solution to my conundrum?  I have no wish to buy any further routers – if I want download/upload reasonable speeds at the same time – HomHub3 – but with that a lack of WiFi bandwidth but if I want WiFi bandwidth I will have to upload  overnight when not downloading with HomeHub6.  For those knowing about Google Drive – if I set the bandwidth upload limit to a max of just below my upload Mbps it makes such a small difference as to not be worth the while.

Hub6 software  SG4B10000B540

I would also confirm I have been using the speedtest.BTWhoilesale.com with a laptop Ethernet connected to the router

So and in desperation as I have run out of ideas, any solutions anyone – please ?  You will have my undying gratitude if precious little else for a solution.

13 REPLIES 13
Baldrick1
Hero
Posts: 3,068
Thanks: 1,314
Fixes: 85
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

This is buffer bloat. I was not aware that the Smarthub suffered from it. It's not that the upload needs a bit of download bandwidth for handshaking that's causing your problem, it's the other way around. When downloading under your circumstances there's no bandwidth left for the download to upload it's handshakes because all the upload bandwidth is being taken. Some router types are worse than others.

 

teddyindevon
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎16-03-2019

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Thank you for that, I thought I said the download needed some upload for handshaking (I called it encryption confirmation from memory) but that is by the by.  So what is the answer - buy another router and if so, how can I guarantee I won't have the same problem ?  I had problems with the Netgear D7000 (and then on blogs found it was a common problem).  Also, I am beginning to have a surfeit of routers (all those mentioned plus an old Netgear and 2 Hub2s - all single 2.4Ghz band) !!

Seriously Baldrick1 - I appreciate your time on this but is there a solution - using the Hub6 ?

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,842
Thanks: 364
Fixes: 41
Registered: ‎13-08-2015

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

The only thing you could do with your current set up would be to limit the upload to your Google drive, thereby giving any download activity some ability to handshake/encryption to the device you are downloading from.

It's not a router problem, its a bandwidth issue - if FTTC is available go there, otherwise stop trying to max your upload if you are hoping to get any download.

It's basic physics/date/telecoms - in car terms, its like accelerating as hard as you can with your other foot on the brake!

teddyindevon
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎16-03-2019

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Thank you Mustrum - strange that the two older routers - TG582n and Hub3 seemed to cope with it though ?  Hence why I had not previously had a problem I suppose. 

The upload to Google Drive - even when limited to 8/900kbs (and tested upload capacity is 1Mbps say), makes no difference to bufferbloat - as I said, I tried that already.  It all seems solely down to the Hub6 (or rather the 2 x Hub 6's I have) being incapable of handling it.  I understand the analogy thank you, just surprised that the up to date Hub 6 cannot cope whereas and older Hub3 and TG582 can. 

Still begs the question what Router would do the job and yes, FTTC is available just I don't, usually, need it.  No on-line games although as I run a free computer self help group, perhaps it might be worth the extra cost.

Thank you all for your time and patience in, at least, pinning down the problem.  As I said at the outset, keep Hub 3 - no problems (and set up an extender for the wifi cameras) keep Hub 6 and update Google Drive overnight.

Thanks guys, appreciate all this.

Baldrick1
Hero
Posts: 3,068
Thanks: 1,314
Fixes: 85
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

@teddyindevon 

I suspect that the sort of device you need is the Netgear D7000, which you rejected probably because you did not get into it's advanced settings. This and quite a few third psrty routers have a Quality of Service (QoS) feature that allows you to prioritise applications. The HH3 probably has it's QoS settings optimised for ADSL as this was the era when it was released.

However, I'm with @Mustrum  i'm afraid. If it was me, rather than spend money on routers I'd negotiate the best deal that I could get out of Plusnet for an upgrade to fibre.

teddyindevon
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎16-03-2019

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Hi Baldrick1, and strange but I had come to the same conclusion - Hub 3 built on "old - adsl" technology, the Hub6 - dubbed "smarthub" by BT is too complicated for old time technology !! 

I rejected the Netgear D7000 because at that time I had horrendous broadband drops which I blamed on the router (I saw it had QoS settings by the way) but however and in hindsight, Plusnet altered the interleaving Huh and the drops abated (after I had returned the Netgear !)  I did find on the blogs though that the D7000 - as I experienced - when it lost the broadband connection, still showed lights indicating it was connected and also, again from memory, that it was itself prone to dropping the line but not re-establishing contact (unlike the Hub6) - hence in the end and for multiple reasons, why I returned it. 

Yes I think I will have to consider upgrading to fibre - if Plusnet can be persuaded to be competitive.  In the meanwhile, I have just set a Hub6 as a WP access point via extenders and I may try to set the cameras to that Hub6 with the Hub 3 as the direct broadband connection and see what happens.  Wonderful being retired with time on one's hands !

Thanks again for the interest and knowledge shown. Isn't technology wonderful ?Huh

Oh and I am a real oldie - I remember when dial up was the "new" technology - on a 25Mghz processor but still "hanging in there".   Ha ha :-) 

DS
Champion
Posts: 2,187
Thanks: 459
Fixes: 22
Registered: ‎06-01-2017

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Or you could have tried to split/unsync the hub 6's wifi, latched only to the 2.4GHz and then see how it performed....?

My gut feeling (as others) is that the hub6 is pushing the upload faster than it can go - is it the 5GHz speed though? - as it's meant for VDSL and whereas you've already witnessed the aging hub3 is 'old skool'.

I must admit, yours is the first report I've read where a hub6 has been put on an ADSL connection, so for that I'll tip my hat to you for trying Smiley

Baldrick1
Hero
Posts: 3,068
Thanks: 1,314
Fixes: 85
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse


@DS wrote:

I must admit, yours is the first report I've read where a hub6 has been put on an ADSL connection, so for that I'll tip my hat to you for trying Smiley


It is an ADSL/VDSL modem by design.

My guess is that few people with an ADSL connection, with its pathetic upload speed, use it for uploading a load of data to a cloud service and the Smarthub is configured for the average user.

DS
Champion
Posts: 2,187
Thanks: 459
Fixes: 22
Registered: ‎06-01-2017

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Yes, I know that!! Grin

Just all the bloatermercials push VDSL down your throat Lips are sealed

It's just that this is the first time I've personally read anyone actually using it on ADSL Wink

(most get an H6 as the H1 is, well, erm, rather dated now)

teddyindevon
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎16-03-2019

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Guys - all of you, thank you.

FYI in case you are interested I have put the Hub 3 on the broadband connection - I also changed the address to 192.168.1.252 (that was all I changed from 254)
I took my hub6 which had all the cameras linked to it and made it a wireless AP but kept the address as 192.168.1.254 as it needs to be identical set up to when it was the "master" hub for all the camera wifi's to connect (rather than all the faff of re-connecting individually)


This means I have many wireless signals (I know - never mind) as I always "split" the Hub 6 wireless to 2.4 and 5 Ghz


A test of uploading to Google drive with the above works fine.  The broadband speeds drop slightly (as expected) but does not collapse to 0.08 to 0.16 as they did with the Hub6
Tests (and these are from main computer via extenders to the Hub 3 which is plugged directly into the master socket) range from 7.44, 8.64, 8.40 Download 0.42, 0.52, 0.48 Upload and 139, 119, 108 Ping. After the upload had completed two similar speed test showed 11.92 (both) download, 1.02 and 1.03 Upload and 93 and 84 Ping


The cameras have reconnected to the Hub6 (I have 2 in the garden and one in the loft) and the Hub 6 is now in the center of the house which I could not previously do as the master socket is the only "live" broadband socket (see my original post re other sockets disconnected when new master socket installed).


I have a system which is now fully functional having, thanks to you guys, realised the download/upload conundrum was not line related but bufferbloat.


Thanks to you all for your contributions - Hub6 is great for the wifi coverage (but not upload on adsl line) and the combination with a Hub 3 (or the original TTG582n) means I am best of both worlds - until I get fibre !!!!


Now for a coffee - Thanks again message me if you think it is time for the Men in White coats to come round !! :-)

DS
Champion
Posts: 2,187
Thanks: 459
Fixes: 22
Registered: ‎06-01-2017

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Oddly enough, two guys in white coats have just come for me. I'm in the back of their van now.

Just heard one say to the other, where to next, I'm sure he said to someone in Devon!!Grin

(also run two hubs here too, needs must and I can't help it my neighbours are swamped with my many wifi signals!Smiley)

Baldrick1
Hero
Posts: 3,068
Thanks: 1,314
Fixes: 85
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

@teddyindevon 

Just be aware that your troubles might not be all over. Ignoring the screwed up title just have a read through this topic in case you have a problem. https://community.plus.net/t5/Everything-else/Configuring-a-BT-SmartHub-6A-as-an-Etherner-Switch-Rou...

 

teddyindevon
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎16-03-2019

Re: Broadband uploading causes download speed to collapse

Thanks Baldrick1 - mine is fine (at the moment) all wifi connections running and connecting/reconnecting no problem and the LAN connections working for use of the smart TV (to save wifi overload) - I checked all those before I posted. I use a BT500 home extender kit using the house wiring to link to the Hub3 router. The complete reset of the Hub6 router is the preferred option but I wanted to maintain my existing camera links to it, rather than reset them all up again (saves climbing trees) hence I kept it's IP address but changed the range and IP of the Hub 3 so that it didn't clash. 

Such a shame that It had to go down this route (Hub6 as WP A/P) due to the buffer bloat (and the fact the Openreach engineer in wiring the new master socket  - a 5C opted to cut off all my extensions from broadband without my knowledge at the time to max broadband speed - allegedly - so my router has to be by the front door.)

Strangely enough but on the BT sites they say there is a fix - done by BT - but nobody knows or admits what it is.  Presumably a software update but as I am not on BT (although Plusnet is a subsid) I can find no way of corroborating that.

The joys of a puzzle !! Beats the Sudoku in The Telegraph any day. :-)